Flemish Twist Questions

[ColonelSandersLite]

I've been making my own strings and have a few questions for some of the more experienced bowyers around here.

1:  I watched    and at about the 1:19:00 mark he makes a bowstring.  After turning the loop over onto the string, he actually braids the string, instead of using the classic twist pattern.  I can't find anything about the idea.  Has anybody tried this?  Thoughts?


2:  For you guys that use B50/55, how do you go about prestretching it?  I'm just looping one end over a sturdy door nob and pulling it good and hard, using a wrench as a handle, about 20 times or so, turn it around pull it 20 more times, and turn it back around and pull it 20 more times.  Because of the bad weather here though, I haven't really had the opportunity to find out for sure if that's really enough.  It does stretch the string by a good inch to an inch and a half though.


3:  I got to looking at my first couple of bowstrings, which I purchased, and I noticed that the strand ends weren't staggered like most Flemish twist strings.  In other words, every strand is the same length.  I'm guessing this is pretty much just cosmetic right? Or am I wrong and that's actually a major issue?  Maybe it was done that way to make the manufacturing process easier.  There is one thing that I really don't like about that string though as a result of that decision.  Usually the tag ends of the bundles are waxed down good and  solid.  One day at the range though, one of those bundles sort of popped up when shooting and made an odd twangy sound.  Startled me when it happened, as I initially thought that something was wrong with the bow.

[fujimo]

i hang a 5 gallon pail full of rocks from the end of my string- overnight- no more stretch.
then i build the string after that

[mikkekeswick]

Or brace up your bow with it and then get a little piece of leather , fold it in half and wrap around the string. Apply some finger pressure so you are squeezing the string between the two halves and then rub up and down until you feel the string 'warm up'. No stretch left  
Or brace your bow with newly twisted string and then try to stretch the string by doing a reverse floor tiller push on to the bow whilst supporting the lower tip with your foot.
Hard to explain that one clearly in words but you feel the stretch come straight out.
I prefer the first method and it only takes about 30 seconds.

[canopyboy]

I do what Mike says with the leather, then I push the string toward the riser using my knees. Leave it strung for a little while. Adjust the brace height and go shoot. I've never been able to fully pre-stretch one, seems like you need to shoot it in at least a little.

As for the braiding, I've never heard of it. In my experience splicing arborist ropes though, I know that knots are the worst for reducing rope strength, braided splices second, then twisted splices. I think the difference in strength between braided and twisted is minor though. I assume the same trends would apply to bowstrings. But I also guess that most of us would never know the difference.

[J.F. Miller]

I do the same as Mike and canopyboy with friction, getting it REALLY warm. I also have a junky old glass longbow that I use specifically for stretching new strings. after I rub it till its hot, I leave the bow strung with a high brace height over night. this works equally well with low-stretch materials and B50. still have to adjust after some shooting, though.

[Pat B]

After twisting up a B-50 string I place the top loop over a cup hook and while pulling the string tight I rub it vigorously with a piece of soft leather. This will heat up the string allowing it to stretch plus it melts the wax so it penetrates into the string.
 Once I add the string to a bow and brace the bow I'll lay the bow, back down across my knees and push out and down on the bow tips, stretching the string. Both of these actions usually takes most of the stretch out.

[John Scifres]

I hang a 25# dumbell with my string from a beam in my garage.  Then I do the leather rubby-heaty thing.  I also add wax to my splice and rub it down good to melt the wax in.  I leave the weight hanging overnight.  A string will still settle in over time a bit.  Just check your brace height occasionally and twist a bit to raise it.

I like a staggered splice.  It looks nicer and makes me feel better at least.  That's worth something  

[ColonelSandersLite]

Re Rubbing Heat:
Yeah, I'm doing that too, but hadn't thought about it as far as it causing the string to stretch some.  I'm really just doing that to get it well waxed, if it causes the string to stretch a bit as well, that's a bonus.

@fujimo
How much weight would you say that is roughly?  5 gallons of water should be around 45 pounds.  Think that would do?

@mikkekeswick & Pat B
I dunno, the idea of trying to force a bow out like that makes me nervous.  Not saying it doesn't work, but I'm not sure I'm going to try that one.

@J.F. Miller
Leaving an old junky bow strung overnight sounds like a decent idea, but I'd have to have an old junky bow with the same string length first.  I'll probably try it out someday.


@Canopy Boy
Well, a lot of people tie a knot for the lower limb as it is anyways.  So, working under that same assumption, the braid should be just as good, if not better than that method.  We all know what they say about assumptions though.  The real obvious advantage to a braid over the twist is that a braid can't untwist though.  Maybe we do the twist from tradition simply because it works better when using natural material strands of variable length?  Another potential advantage of a braid is that it works for both 3 and 4 bundles of string, though it can't work for a 2 bundle string.  For now, I'm going to stick with the tried and true, but when I have a couple of spare bows on hand, just in case, I think I want to try this out.  That is, unless someone else has more experience with it and can shed more light on the matter.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Ooh, another qestion:

Sometimes, reading and watching around, I hear a statement to the effect of, your bundles should be a different color so that you can match the loose end to the correct string when making your loops.

This sounds good on the face of it, but thinking about it, I can't see what possible advantage this even has?  Can someone elaborate?

From what I can tell, historical strings made from more primitive materials did not get made up in bundles of different colors.  So either they had some other method of keeping track or they just didn't care.  Left to random chance, with a loop on both ends, there would be a 75% chance that at least one of the loops ended up the wrong way and a 25% chance that both would be the wrong way.

[Roy from Pa]

http://www.rmsgear.com/store/pc/tutorial_string_2bundle.asp
Good info here Patrick.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Hey Roy, I've seen that one too.  Doesn't actually answer any of those questions though   .  The pictures in that tutorial drive me nuts.  The tutorials I learned from where all twist right, wrap left, and his is twist left, wrap right.  Logically, I know that it doesn't make a bit of difference, but it just looks so dang backwards to me.

[Roy from Pa]

I just fuggered ya need all the help you can get..    LOL

[fujimo]

i just do the weight from the string trick, as i was advised on here.
but i do know that when i stretch the strands  like this, and then build my string to the exact length i want, my brace height NEVER changes after that- it seems to stay right where its at!
i use endless loop strings.
i do love the look of the flemish twist strings though- look very pro!

[frank bullitt]

Shoot it in! That's where the dynamics are. That's where the brace height matters, most. Shoot it!

[mikkekeswick]

Think what happens when you shoot a bow....what happens to the string and limbs when the bow reaches brace?
I've been doing what I suggested above with every string i've made for the past 5 years or so and that is quite a few strings! It works perfectly. What do you think can go wrong!?
As for different colours - it's just aesthetics. What matters is using even tension on all strands.
String making is just practise really there isn't much to it when using modern materials. Natural strings...well that's a different story all together  

[ColonelSandersLite]

Yeah, logically, I know that when the bow slams home, that's probably more force than I'm going to be able to exert with my bare hands on the tips anyways.  Still, I have some sort of subconscious aversion to that idea.  Maybe it's based on some past experience that's not really relevant, or maybe it is and I'm just not able to articulate it well.  Whatever the reason, I'm just not comfortable with it and there's other ways so it's not the end of the world either way.

Re colors, yeah, that's what I think too.  I suspect that some people are reversing the causation there.  Kind of like saying that you want to make something out of steel so you can weld it, when in reality, you weld something you want to make out of steel.

Re natural materials.  I *definitely* want to start making strings out of natural materials sooner or later.  I'm thinking about planting some flax soon so I can have at it later this year.

[Roy from Pa]

Just shoot the darn bow and the string will stretch to where it's going to stretch toooo. Even a girl from Mo. Can fugger that out .  

[ColonelSandersLite]

I'm a Texan actually, just live in Missouri.  That's actually my natural inclination, but in the initial research phase, I came across a lot of people saying that they prestretch their strings.  I figure that if that many people are doing it, there's probably a reason.  So hey, I figure I'll try both.  Just wanted to get a feel for how people where going about it.

[Roy from Pa]

Just shoot the darn bow and the string will stretch to where it's going to stretch toooo. Even a girl from Mo. Can fugger that out .