Need help on lamination combo.

[DRKJHSO]

Ive been wanting to build a bow for a long time, and I have finally got around to really researching it, seeing what woods work, etc. Im going to make a laminate recurve. I figure ill make my own lams, but I need to see if I can get my jig made that precise first. Its definitely cheaper.I know there is a lot of top notch bowyers on this site because I have seen some of the work and information that has been given, so I am excited to see if this will work or not. Im not crazy about the carbon, but Ill take help where I can get it. It may not be worth it though, as I will probably pull around 60+ lbs on a recurve. I did some shooting with a 55 lb longbow and it seems way way to light. My compound is at 75 lbs with a very steep draw cycle to get its speed. I shoot around 28.5 to 29 inches.

So, after lots of research, I came up with this combination from back to belly: Glass, hickory veneer, carbon, osage, blacklocust, osage, glass.

1) 45 degree glass for minimizing torsion and to serve as backing.
2) Hickory veneer for looks.
3) Carbon for speed, but I haven't quite figured out if its even worth using. I might as well ask though.
4) Osage for its elasticity, compression, etc. I wanted this next to the carbon for compatibility purposes.
5) Black locust as a core.
6) Osage again.
7) Then a fiberglass belly. Possibly at 90 degrees this time.

Just to give you an idea of what I have access to incase I need to subsitute or throw the entire idea away: I live on 1000 acres of farmland with several hundred acres of woods between what we own and what I have access to from neighbors. Basically any wood found in North Missouri I can find around here. I currently can go into the back part of this tract and find black locust, hickory, black walnut, osage orange, elm, several types of oak including water oak and white oak, and maple (not sure which kinds, I know we have some soft maple around, but I cant distinguish hard maple. There is more woods in the river bottom like birch and willow.

I dont know what to look for, but I know we have buckeye, ash, eastern and american hornbeam, red oak, and some cherry.

[wood carver 2]

1000 acres of farmland and access to hundreds more acres of woods! You live in heaven!      
Welcome to the site. You know, once you start on this journey, there's no turning back. It's the best addiction there is.
If I may offer some advice for your first bow, don't build it too heavy. 55 to 60 # will kill anything on this continent and is easier to shoot with.
Dave.

[monterey]

I've zero experience with carbon, but otherwise will stick my neck out.  First off, the closer to the center of your core, the less work done by the material.  The vast majority of the work is done by the first 10% of the back and the belly.

It's always been my feeling that if the depths of the core are doing so little work, then they are best kept as light as possible.

My suggestion is that you go ahead and harvest a variety of wood for the future.  While that wood is seasoning, purchase some light weight lams such as maple or elm  for your first bow.

I'm sure there are members here who can advise you on the pros and cons of carbon.

[kennym]

Black locust, red elm,hard maple ,and walnut are my picks from those.

Carbon works best on outside on bow back from my understanding, never used it tho.

Osage is a little heavy but works.

If you need some dry wood, I know a kiln by Lancaster.

Where in N MO are you? I'm in Linn Co, 40 miles SW of Kirksville.

[DRKJHSO]

Kenny,
Im about 45 min south of kirksville. Im gonna guess if you live near 36, that Im roughly 1 hr from you. About 24 miles east of Macon...As far as the carbon goes, Im trying to keep it as close to the out side by only using a thin strip of hickory veneer for looks and a layer of fiberglass.But it seems the cost isn't really worth the speed gain unless the bow just shoots terrible from both a speed and shootabilty stand point.

I understand that black locust chrysals badly, so thats why I figured that would be my core with 2 thinner strips of Osage on either side. Although osage seems to be more of a material for a self bow now that i read more on it. I see lots of maple being used in bows, but I dont know if I can find some. Maybe use the walnut with black locust core? I seem to remember locust being lighter than the others and wouldn't make a bad core.

[bigbob2]

I made a HH style longbow[glass] with Osage as belly lam and it is a very good performer.

[DRKJHSO]

Originally posted by wood carver 2:
1000 acres of farmland and access to hundreds more acres of woods! You live in heaven!        
Welcome to the site. You know, once you start on this journey, there's no turning back. It's the best addiction there is.
If I may offer some advice for your first bow, don't build it too heavy. 55 to 60 # will kill anything on this continent and is easier to shoot with.
Dave.

I live on a crop/cattle farm...I dont own much of it though, mainly dad. But Im only a freshman in college so I guess I cant be too hard on myself for not having a bigger jump than I do.

Definetly good advice. I was doing some research on that and without having shot a lot of traditional, too much poundage could mess up my form. Of course Im sure you knew that, but I just found out for myself. I think Im going to end up with 2 or 3 bows before I find one I like at least. After that, its all just making a faster, less shocking, more beautiful bow. I learn quick if one blows up!

[DRKJHSO]

Originally posted by kennym:
Black locust, red elm,hard maple ,and walnut are my picks from those.

Carbon works best on outside on bow back from my understanding, never used it tho.

Osage is a little heavy but works.

If you need some dry wood, I know a kiln by Lancaster.

Where in N MO are you? I'm in Linn Co, 40 miles SW of Kirksville.

Oh, and is sugar maple the same as hard maple? I take it that it is based off what I found. Hard maple seems to be describing both sugar maple and black maple.

If so, do we even have it around here? I guess I never paid much attention, but seems like it occurs quite a bit on the river bottoms and turns yellow in the fall. Might have to wait till this summer/fall to start finding these trees so I can identify them.

[Roy from Pa]

Yes sugar maple is hard maple. Red Elm is a great bow wood. Osage is fantastic bow wood. Black Locust and Walnut are ok.

[DRKJHSO]

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
Yes sugar maple is hard maple. Red Elm is a great bow wood. Osage is fantastic bow wood. Black Locust and Walnut are ok.

I see...I think I have decided to leave out the fiberglass, however, as for my first bow, I think its better I learn to the basic process and techniques first. I figure maybe a trilam bow with Hickory back, elm or maple core, and osage belly might not be a bad idea. Of course its all in theory to me. I have no experience in the matter, therefore I am trying to see what will/wont. Its just about as much fun in finding out how to build it as it is actually building things  

[LittleBen]

If you have access to a lot of nice wood, especially Osage, you could probably cut some nice staves and trade/sell them for a ton of lams for making glass bows or whatever else you like.

[DRKJHSO]

Originally posted by LittleBen:
If you have access to a lot of nice wood, especially Osage, you could probably cut some nice staves and trade/sell them for a ton of lams for making glass bows or whatever else you like.

True, but much of the osage around here is short and branchy. The treeline outback has quite a few nice logs in it though, I just dont know enough to start selling people osage that may or may not be good bow material. Im not fond of jipping people on a deal Not my style, even if unintentional.

[canopyboy]

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
Yes sugar maple is hard maple. Red Elm is a great bow wood. Osage is fantastic bow wood. Black Locust and Walnut are ok.

Osage and black locust are fantastic in all wood bows, but IMO tend to be a bit heavy for cores in a glass bow. Like was said earlier, the glass does a lot of the work and if you can keep the core woods light, it'll shoot a bit smoother and faster. Elm is lighter and is all around a great bow wood, and walnut is lighter yet and is my new favorite for deep cored glass bows. It's also tough to beat the traditional hard maple for core lams.

[DRKJHSO]

Originally posted by canopyboy:
 

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
Yes sugar maple is hard maple. Red Elm is a great bow wood. Osage is fantastic bow wood. Black Locust and Walnut are ok.

Osage and black locust are fantastic in all wood bows, but IMO tend to be a bit heavy for cores in a glass bow. Like was said earlier, the glass does a lot of the work and if you can keep the core woods light, it'll shoot a bit smoother and faster. Elm is lighter and is all around a great bow wood, and walnut is lighter yet and is my new favorite for deep cored glass bows. It's also tough to beat the traditional hard maple for core lams. [/b]

Well, as I mentioned above, I dont think Im going to do glass on this one, being the first. Lots of black walnut around. I have one thats about 10 feet long and around 1.5 feet in diameter just setting on the ground after it got cut out of a fence line to make it all one field. Was going to sell it, dont know why we didn't...

Because I feel that I may not use glass, thats why i thought a hickory back and osage belly with a light core might not be a bad idea. Unless osage would work better than hickory on the back...either way, there is plenty of it for my purposes around. All the woods that seem to be used very much are within 1 mile of me and quite a few of them.

[kennym]

Derek,

I'm out on the all wood, but good luck with her and Roy will help you if you need but read him carefully, he will pull yer leg sometimes.

(Mongolian tulip wood bow)  :D

[DRKJHSO]

Originally posted by kennym:
Derek,

I'm out on the all wood, but good luck with her and Roy will help you if you need but read him carefully, he will pull yer leg sometimes.

(Mongolian tulip wood bow)   :D  

Haha, okay. Sounds good. Thanks for your help!