Smooth on EA 40 substitute

[Rudamchu]

Hi Y'all. Haven't posted in quite some time. Just wanted to see if any of you more experienced/knowledgeable fellas can chime in with opinions on this potential substitute for EA 40 that I located locally. I can get 3 quarts of the stuff for $42.00 and the claimed shelf life is indefinite in controlled climate conditions. Here are a couple photos of the specs of both.  


 


 

[Rudamchu]

Anybody?

[kennym]

It looks like it "might" work. If it did , it would be cost-effective for sure.

If not, it would cost you in the short run. As in some bows if it lasts for a bit then gives up.

Being thinner and a short pot life, if it soaks in more and starts getting hot, how will that affect the bond?

I guess there is only one way to know. Wanna be the guniea pig?  

[mwosborn]

For $42 bucks give it a try and let everyone know how it worked.       In reading the specs, my one concern would be the pot life - I am kind of slow at getting the glass and lams all put together and into the form.

[Bvas]

I would be afraid of the 30 minute pot life for an entire bow glue up not to mention  the heat distortion temp being 25 degrees lower.

Might try it on some overlays, or test with some scrap lam pieces. It would be hard for me to stray from a proven product like smooth-on when gluing up  $100-200 dollars worth of material.

[M60gunner]

Does it Flex when cured? That would be a concern making bows.

[monterey]

If you want something that is lower viscosity you can use versamid.  I used it on several bows and it works fine but thicker EA40 is easier to work with.

I did a bow with West Systems once and by the time it was layed up the plastic solo cup it was mixed in melted down.  

[kennym]

I used versamid when I started and had a red elm bow with a dry spot size of a dime. Bingham told me red elm soaked in glue a lot and should use ea-40 . Never looked back ....

Oh yeah, that bow finally blew up at full draw. I don't like that much!

[mikkekeswick]

Low viscosity isn't ideal for bows. Short pot life too. Exothermic reactions aren't ideal either when gluing lots of different dimensioned woods.

[Crooked Stic]

Dont know why you would want to use anything else when the EA-40 has been proven many times over. If it aint broke --------------

[Rudamchu]

I don't know if there's anything wrong with a bit of experimentation from the norm. Just because something has been the monopoly for a long time doesn't mean there can't be an equally or more effective alternative as well as potentially a less expensive one. This company formulates a wide variety of epoxies and is local to my neck of the woods. They've been in business for many, many years as a pretty reputable supplier to the marine industry, and reasonably inexpensive to boot. I've always been satisfied with the quality of their products. Based upon the responses here, maybe I can get them to tweak the formula for bows, or even point me to a more suitable formula of their's. Seems like the major concerns here are viscosity, pot life, and heat distortion levels. Otherwise, based upon the other factors, it would appear this epoxy is stronger in many areas.

[Rudamchu]

Originally posted by M60gunner:
Does it Flex when cured? That would be a concern making bows.

Yes, they assured me that it is very flexible.

[kennym]

Heck yeah , keep us posted!

[mwosborn]

I agree, nothing wrong with trying something new!  I don't suppose bows in build in the 60's used EA40.  It was the new thing at some point.  Give it a go!

[Crooked Stic]

The thing I see here is it may be just as good as smooth on. But I really dont have the time or money to properly test it out. I have something I know works. May cost a bit more but the piece of mind is worth it to me.

[kennym]

Good point Mike

That looks like an epoxy for wetting out fiberglass...  It may or may not have good adhesion qualities...  I would test it first...  All epoxies are not equal...  If they were EA-40 would not be the number one choice fore bows...  I have had failures with other epoxy resins...  Best to test it before you use it on a bow...

   If it is thin like syrup (which it probably is) I suggest that you put on an ample amount, put the parts in the form and wait until it thickens a bit before you inflate your hose...  Reason being, the resin can soak into the wood and leave you with a dry joint...  Adding fillers can also help with adhesion...

[Rudamchu]

Originally posted by Crooked Stic:
The thing I see here is it may be just as good as smooth on. But I really dont have the time or money to properly test it out. I have something I know works. May cost a bit more but the piece of mind is worth it to me.

I've decided that I'll be the guinea pig and let y'all know how it works. After talking extensively today with the owner of the company, I'm fairly convinced that the formulation as is would be worth a try. I'll be picking some up tomorrow and start out with a BBI bow that I've got ready to go.

[Robertfishes]

I'm no Epoxy expert or Materials engineer. Quickly looking at the provide information I see a couple of things..the short 30 minute "pot life" would keep me from using it. The listed "heat distortion" is 138 degrees Smooth On is 163 degrees. .and the "very thin epoxy" in their description also might keep me from using it for a bow glue up. I'm not saying it would not work but there is a known epoxy (Smooth On EA-40)that works very well. About 9 years ago I was in St Pete Florida at the "Cocobolo Inc" wood sales Shop and he had some epoxy that looked and smelled just like Smooth On. He said it was locally made and works well, but he was not gluing up bows.  I bought 3 Cocobolo 8-10ft long boards that day and have not used them yet..