Limb Thickness for Horse/Turkish Bow

[stuP]

Hello.

This is my first time posting, but I have been following for some time. I from Australia and unfortunately we don't have a lot of local resources.

I am going to attempt to make a glass laminated Turkish/Horse Bow. I have found some general plans in relation to the overall shape. What I don't seem to be able to identify is generally what thickness to aim for in regards to the bending area of the limbs.

I will be shooting for a limb width of around 1.5 inches, with a bow length of about 55-58 inches. I will also be aiming for about 35# at 29".

1. Any suggestion of thickness of lamination and glass for the limbs.

2. Should I taper the wood laminations, or have a combination of tapered etc..

Thanks

Stuart

[KenH]

Oops. Delete, please...

[KenH]

Welcome StuP!

A couple years back I made a Scythian style wood-glass laminate "horse" bow.  The Scythians were one of the great nomad cultures of Central Asia, of course.

This will give you at least "ball-park" numbers for your lam stack.

My Scythian is 49" tip-to-tip, unstrung.  Much closer to the originals than your proposed 54"-58".  It is 1.5" wide at the fades tapering to 1.25" just before the pin nock, and the draw weight is 33#.  

The lamination stack is:

1x .030 glass
2x .070 Red Elm parallel lams
1x .070 Red Elm belly side handle lam 6.5" long
1x .070 Red Elm belly side handle lam 4.5" long
1x .030 glass

I used the rubberband form shown here.

     
This is the glue-up of the core.  Because of the extreme curves I did a three-stage glue-up -- core, belly glass and back glass.

Here's the bow just off the form and cleaned up:
     

Finished bow at brace, with handle and tips wrapped with heavy silk embroidery thread:
   

I use only a 27" draw, but the bow is capable of more:
   

[stuP]

Ken

Thanks for the reply. That is a beautiful bow. I do have a further question. If I shoot with a thumb ring my draw will be out to about 31 inch. Do you think this bow could handle that as is, or should i move away from the traditional size and make it a larger bow with this shape. If larger will that assist in getting a longer draw?

Thanks.

[mikkekeswick]

The longest Turkish bows were around 48 inch and these could draw to around 30 inch (true composite construction).
Using the thumb draw does not automatically mean you will draw 2 inches further! Read Saracen Archery or Adam Swodobas book on 'Shooting the Short Reflexed Bow with the Thumbring'. There are generally three main 'anchor' points that can be used.No old Turkish arrows are longer than 29 inches.
As for stack and taper rates without seeing your plans it is impossible to answer that! If you post your plans I will compare them to my Turkish bow plans and see if I can come up with a stack height for you.

[stuP]

Mike

I have no formal plans drawn up at this stage. The best I found was probably from this site by an earlier poster. I was thinking of scaling it up to be larger, under the assumption that it will handle a longer draw length.

 

I shoot an Olympic style target bow mostly and my actual draw three finger is 30 inches (im 6'4"). I was guessing that shooting with a ring would push my hand further to the back of my face. I may be mistaken in regards to this but I will blame youtube and take no responsibility for myself:)

As the the style of "horse bow" I am not to concerned. I just want something I can have fun with, and if I get accurate enough without sights etc.. i may make a heavier one for hunting down the track.

If you or anyone else has plans that would suit or be resized I would love to see them, or maybe get a tracing, or photo of your bow/s, both strung or unstrung.

Thanks

Stuart

[stuP]

By the way I would have given credit to the maker or original poster of these plans, but as per usual I could not find them again after earlier saving the image.

Stu

[KenH]

Remember there is no Draw Police organization to ensure that you draw to some specific distance, whether your are 6'4" or 4'6".  You can always draw to the limit of the bow.  You can put that thumb ring under the tip of your chin, at the angle of your jaw, or wherever else you want as an anchor.

My design, without the radical recurved tips, would probably go to 31".  I'm sure that "as is" it goes to 28" and probably 29" because those tips "unwind" somewhat as you draw.

Your design is great -- as a design for a wood-horn-sinew composite bow, but needs some re-working to become a pattern for a wood-glass bow.

The dimensions are fine, but the limb-handle-siyah construction won't work easily with glass.  I have seen wood-glass bows made with the limbs reflexed, a forward handle glassed in separately, and wood siyahs added after the rest of the glue up.  You will definately need .030 glass (or .020-.025 thin) to make the bends going over that short forward handle.

Basically, you would make a form that mimics the belly lines of the bow out to the point where the side profile shows 2cm at the "heel" of the siyah. A form like mine, made from a 2x12 will work just fine.

Then you assemble/glue the limb stack onto that.  

Next you make the forward handle, and use some sort of jig/form to hold that in place while you both epoxy it to the back of the bow and then epoxy a short length of glass over the top of it and a few centimeters beyond.  

Third you would taper the limbs from the handle to the width of the siyahs at the tips.

Step 4 is to fabricate the siyahs and epoxy them in place.  

Lastly, a spiral wrap of say silk embroidery thread over the area where the siyahs extend onto the back of the bow would be epoxied in place both for decoration and re-inforcement of that joint.

Easy-peasy as they say!

[stuP]

Ken

Well I am not going to reinvent the wheel. I think I will use your design, as it seems it was very successful.

As you mentioned do you suggest reducing the reflex of the tips to whcih of the following;

 

Please excuse my use Microsoft paint. In real terms the tips will be fared in with curves from your design.

Also sorry to be a pain but do you have any images of the tips to show how the string is held. I would also appreciate a back or belly photos is available to see how you shaped the handle and to show the overall taper of the limbs.

Again sorry to be a pain. The bow you made is really nice, and I hope to only make something half as good.

Thanks

Stuart

[KenH]

No problem.  I took lots of pix to show... Either tip curve would work.  It's going to be your bow, so you pick!

More pix:
   
Taper from mid-limb; also see tip.

   
Finished tips.

   
Handle indents.

[Mad Max]

I made some like this, 4" loop.
And I have made some loops longer and the limb get's wider at the end of the loop
 

Saluki Bows
These are fiber glass
  http://www.salukibow.com/fiberglass-bows/