Bendy-Handle - Off the Hand & Way Left

[YosemiteSam]

Well, it seems rather obvious that this should be a spine issue but I'm having some doubts.  So far, even if I've attempted to build an ambidextrous bow, I've later come back to cut in something of a shelf, which has brought my shots back to center again.  But I'm working on a bendy handle bow from the Clay Hayes video (rawhide backed maple board) and I don't think I can cut much from the handle of this one.  

As of today, it's pulling a little over 50# at 27".  Today is my first day to shoot it a bit so I expect the weight to settle in at around 45-50# if I'm lucky.  The arrows are 40-45# but loaded up front with 225 gr. point weight.  They hit the same spot as some 30-35# arrows with only 125 points.  Same spot.  Just about 16" off to the left of where I'm aiming them.  I'm guessing the dynamic spine is about the same.  The handle is about 1 1/4" wide so about 5/8" from center at the pass.  3Rivers's calculator has the spine within range -- roughly 29 for the bow and 26 for the arrow.  Yet those shots are nowhere close.  The bow is braced at about 7".

Am I going to need some sort of kids arrows to shoot this thing straight?  Or some super long shafts?  Narrowing the handle would be ideal but I'm just nervous that a bendy-handle can go down that much further.  Those with some experience in these kinds of bows (building and shooting), please chime in.

[Bvas]

Load the 30-35 arrows with the 225 point and see what happens.

[Roy from Pa]

What is Your draw length first? Is it 27"?
And how long are the arrows?

I would start out with full length arrows, 40# to 45# spine like you have, 30 inches long! Or even 35# to 40# spine. The farther a bow is out from center shot, the lower dynamic spine arrows you will need. And 1.5" is a wide handle! Nothing wrong with that though, just the bow style. All my bows are 3/4" wide at the handle, even up to 60# draw weight. Never had a handle break.

When tuning arrows. You want the arrows to be a little weak at first, so you can cut off say 1/4" at a time and shoot them again to tune them in. For every 1 inch over 28", the arrow decreases 5# in dynamic spine weight, and for every 1" less than 28" it increases 5# in dynamic spine weight.
 
Another thing you could do is raise or lower the brace height. But only change one thing at a time and see how it affects the arrow flight. But I'm betting you need weaker arrows.

Click on knowledge base then bow tuning..

            http://www.acsbows.com/index.html

[Roy from Pa]

And this.

 

[George Tsoukalas]

I assume you are right handed, Sam? Right eye dominant?

Also, please describe the arrows flight and not the impact point.

I use 125 grain points. For a 45# bow,  which is 1.25 in wide at the pass, I would be shooting a 40-45# arrow, 29" bop for a 26" draw.

More on my site.

 http://traditionalarchery101.com/selfbowcare.html

Jawge

[YosemiteSam]

Originally posted by Bvas:
Load the 30-35 arrows with the 225 point and see what happens.

I only have one spare 225 point (100 woodie weight + 125 point, to be more accurate).  Results are inconclusive thus far.  Will keep trying on my breaks today & see if I can get more consistent results.

[YosemiteSam]

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:
What is Your draw length first? Is it 27"?
And how long are the arrows?
...
All my bows are 3/4" wide at the handle, even up to 60# draw weight. Never had a handle break.
...

 But I'm betting you need weaker arrows.

Click on knowledge base then bow tuning..

             http://www.acsbows.com/index.html  

Yes, I'm drawing about 27".  The arrows are cut to 28" to the back of the point.

3/4" wide at the pass for a bendy handle?  Or do you have some thickness there?  This is a single piece of 3/4" maple.  No handle block glued in behind.  So from the deepest part of the grip to the back is only 3/4".  Just want to confirm to make sure we're on the same page.

Maybe I need weaker arrows.  I'll shoot some more today & see what kind of results I get.

[YosemiteSam]

Originally posted by George Tsoukalas:
I assume you are right handed, Sam? Right eye dominant?

Also, please describe the arrows flight and not the impact point.

I use 125 grain points. For a 45# bow,  which is 1.25 in wide at the pass, I would be shooting a 40-45# arrow, 29" bop for a 26" draw.

More on my site.

  http://traditionalarchery101.com/selfbowcare.html  

Jawge

George - thanks for posting this link.  I've seen many posts from you and some links to your content, all of which were dead links (old posts here & other forums).  So I appreciate getting pointed in the right direction.  

For the sake of the data I gave above, yes, shooting right handed.  I shoot both right and left handed.  I have no real dominant eye and can switch between them without much thought needed.  This is part of the reason why, in spite of my failure to produce a good ambi-bow, I keep trying.  Most folks are right handed so I tried a few rounds right to make sure my results were consistent.  When shooting left handed, the arrows are, indeed, hitting right.

As for flight, it's hard to tell.  It looks straight to me.  A bare-shafted 30-35# spine arrow (28" long and 125 gr point) flies with a hard nock left and impacts right of the point of aim.  Same shaft fletched will hit left but look perfectly straight in flight.  But I'm less trustworthy of bare shafts until I get more shots in to help average out form errors.  And I can usually see the flight better late in the day when the sun is at a lower angle.  So I'll have to pay more attention this evening if I fling a few.

Seems like we're fairly similar in the setup.  Your 40-45s cut to 29 with 125 points should be pretty similar to mine at 28 with 225s and drawn to 27".  Maybe my form is off somehow.

[George Tsoukalas]

Sam, that's 29" to the back of the point so they are actually around 30" when cut. That's 125 grain without that extra weight. Jawge

[YosemiteSam]

Yes.  Mine are cut so that they will be 28" measured from the valley of the nock to the back of the point (well, the back of the woodie weight in this case).  I don't count the 3/4" taper stuck inside the point.  They are "cut" to 28.75".

[Roy from Pa]

I was just saying how narrow my handle area was compared to yours being wider. Meaning a wider handle area will need a weaker spine arrow than my narrower handle.

Yes I glue on a 1" thick riser so I end up with about 1 5/8th" in depth at handle area.

You need some arrows 30 inches long and an assortment of points to experiment with this..

[Al Dean]

Sure looks like a false stiff reading to me.  I would think the arrows with the weight up front would be way to weak.  I know it is not the same but I shoot 30 1/2" 55-60 with 125 from a 47# @ 29 self bow no shelf.  I draw 29".

[YosemiteSam]

Yes, I'm starting to think it was a combination of form issues and an inconsistent hand placement.  Such a thin bow (back to belly) is hard to get used to for me.  The arrows have been mostly landing just a few inches left today or dead center.  I tried about 10 shots through paper at about 6' and, after double checking every part of the shot (feeling the back of the point, making sure my hand was in the same spot throughout the draw cycle, etc.), they came out as bullet holes.  I'm chalking it up to user error at this point.  I think some sort of floppy rest, golf tee or something is in order to make sure I don't mess it up.

I also put a piece of soft velcro on the pass today and that made it a lot smoother sounding.  Shots went from a small *clack* to a gentle *thump*.  Not sure if the arrows may have been bouncing off the hard pass & giving a false stiff reading.

I'll probably give it a few more days to shoot as it is, recheck tiller & finish this one up.  Hoping to put some pics up in the next week or so.  Thanks to all for your help.

[George Tsoukalas]

I'm glad you solved it! Have fun. Jawge