Adding Weight to Rivercane Shafts?

[hickry]

Anybody ever figured out a way to add any weight to rivercane shafts?  I've thought about a long drill bit... adding some type of doweling... then expanding foam to keep it from "rattling".  i don't really have any experience with cane and am concerned about severely affecting spine with the this type of setup.  Just wondering what other ideas are out there?

[1gutpile]

Just foreshaft the cane...adds weight, better FOC and aids to greater penetration.....my cane shafts are 25 " long add 4 to 5 inch foreshafts with 85 to 100 stone point with sinew and glue..shafts weigh in a 498 to 515...shoot out of 54 @ 25 selfbow..have shot them out of 62@27 morrison glass bow...fly great.....

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Kirk has it! Footed cane shafts have been used since before recorded history, and are still in common use in remote parts of the world. Most of the Oriental footed cane shafts measure Extreme FOC too (as do many original arrows of the American Indians). There's little in the world of archery that's truly new.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[hickry]

Thanks!  I'll need to do some research on foreshaft materials... anybody have any experience with hickory?  I've got plenty laying around... and it's pretty heavy.

[Jeff U]

I've tried BB's with glue - they tend to rattle.

Lead shot with glue - tend to rattle, but less than BB's

I never thought of using the expanding foam to hold them in place.  Probably would work better than glue.

Newest idea:
Easton Axis Brass inserts (100 grain).  They are made for the real skinny carbons and can be made to fit.

[nchunter]

I made several "solid" river cane shafts last year.  I bought some 18" long drill bits in 1/8" and 3/16" diameters and drilled out all the nodes from both ends to the center.  From the point end to the center I filled with poplar dowel rod, and from the nock end to the center filled with bamboo shiskabob skewers.  

I tried three different glues: Titebond II, Gorilla Glue, and 1 hour Epoxy.  All the glues worked - although with the Gorilla Glue you need to keep pressure on the ends of the dowels during cure or the expanding glue will push the dowels out.

I think the result was about an extra 150-170 grains of arrow weight.  (Arrows weighed about 650-670 grains with 125 grain points on them.)  Of course poplar and bamboo are light materials - if you used oak or ramin dowels I'm sure you'd get even more weight.

What disappointed me was that it didn't add much stiffness or spine to the arrow.  As an engineer I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, since Mechanics of Materials tells us that adding material to the center of a cross-section doesn't help your stiffness - which is why we use I-beams in bridges and not solid squares of steel.  It'll definitely add to your weight though, if that's what you want.

[1gutpile]

any hardwood will do...hickory would be excellent for foreshafting...hard to beat on strength but if dry it is fairly light...osage is a good foreshaft as oak is a great one too.....you will be surprised at the flight of your arrow when you add foreshaft to cane...just seems to fly better IMO..www.gutstuff.com and you can see foreshafted cane under arrows...I can't seem to post a pic here for ya...hope this helps....gut

[Art B]

That extra weight up front is nice if'n you got the spine to spare. Why don't you give us some specs so we know more about what you're trying to achieve.

Just the natural taper of cane will cost you an additional 10-15 lbs of spine. And of the cane (switch/river) I've used the spine max out around 65-75#  for a 3/8" point end.-ART B

[brettlandon]

If you go with oak and want weight, use white oak (the wood is decidedly NOT white).  It is very dense (near osage) and rot resistant to boot.   Good luck to you.

-Brett

[hickry]

WOW! Thanks for all of the good info!  I'll be trying some of these ideas.  As far as spec's... I really don't know yet.  My bow looks like it's going to be around 55# @27"... I have a dozen or so pieces of cane that are dry (~5/16" @ nock end)... and I'm just really starting.  I really liked bare shafting my carbons when I was shooting a recurve.  Thought I'd try doing the same with my selfbow... guessing I'll learn more after I get some arrows built and start shooting.  Thanks for the tip on the white oak.  We've got lots of it around here... I'll get some cut and started drying.  That's a pretty neat site you got there Gut... like the arrows... and love the heads.  Maybe someday...

[Jeff U]

I think you'll need them bigger than 5/16.

Go for about 3/8.  I carry a 3/8 open end wrench when cutting.  Makes for an easy reference.

[1gutpile]

spine your cane to 60 to 75 around 25 to 26 inch long...then foreshaft out from bottom node about 4 inches , which will leave about 2 1/2 to 3 hanging out cane..a point around 90 to 115 will drop your spine into the area you need..cane is real tolerant of spine..natural taper and all...it will handle a variety of weights and still shoot straight...you want you arrow to bend as it comes off bow enough for clearance of the shelf and or riser....that would be a good starting point..you will be surprised at the tolerance cane will have on the spine area..also I get my cane about 11 /32 on point end..I have cane that ranges from 45 to 120 same size just different spine...gut