So few trad hunters in California. Why?

[Doug Treat]

 :biglaugh:HA! John, you're too much.

[YosemiteSam]

I can speculate that it's the result of our pitiful herds & oddball early seasons for most public land.  My local area has a success rate at about 5%.  After all, if you're lucky enough to see a legal buck before the rut, what are the odds that it's within trad distances?  The logical choice is to use a compound to eek out a little more range and then grab a rifle as soon as the season allows.

But all that is mostly just speculation.  People often don't make logical choices (like me, for example).  And I suspect that a lot of Californians just like all the techy gear -- possibly more than the hunt.  The way I've heard some people talk makes me think that they use the hunt to show how good a shot they are rather than use the bow to show how good a hunter they are.

The shoot McDave mentioned near Fresno is trad only & organized by Fresno Field Archers.  But the stakes are still mostly set for 25+ yards, which is beyond where I allow myself to shoot for hunting.  Smaller targets are in closer but anything deer-sized or larger was out at 30 or more.  It is what it is.  It's fun to test but I don't see it as hunting practice.  They have some pop-ups and a running pig to hit.  Again, it's not that I would take those shots in real life but an excuse to have some fun.

[McDave]

The shoot McDave mentioned near Fresno is trad only & organized by Fresno Field Archers.  But the stakes are still mostly set for 25+ yards, which is beyond where I allow myself to shoot for hunting.  Smaller targets are in closer but anything deer-sized or larger was out at 30 or more.  It is what it is.  It's fun to test but I don't see it as hunting practice.  They have some pop-ups and a running pig to hit.  Again, it's not that I would take those shots in real life but an excuse to have some fun.

I’ve often thought it would be fun to have some trad stakes set up at closer distances, with points only if you hit within the kill zone, and negative points if you hit the animal outside the kill zone. Zero points for a clean miss. Of course, it’s not worth setting up the stakes if not enough people sign up for it, which I suspect is why they have no trad stakes at all at Redding.

[YosemiteSam]

I love that idea -- especially the negative points for bad shots.  I think that would help promote the ethic of passing up shots that are less certain.  Add in different field positions (seated on the ground, kneeling, full prone, reaching, horizontal bow, etc.) and I think you'd have an awesome prep course for hunting-related shots.  Maybe add "the sleepy hunter" shot -- from a sleeping pad or hammock?  A log straddle?

[mmilinovich]

Here in SE Wisconsin, there are 18 archery clubs within 75 minutes of my home.  All conduct shoots that are "open to the public."  Trad shooters are OVER-represented at these events.   (I'm guessing that 30-40% of shoot attendees are trad at those shoots allowing both compounds and trad equipment.  Some shoots are "trad only."  Imagine that!

Mark

[Raminshooter]

McDave and others:  I spent a year living in the great state of texas and can attest to the fact that the best trad shooters I ever saw were from Oklahoma.  The reason being is that the type of traditional shoot you describe and wish for is the norm in Oklahoma.  At their shoots they will bring in brush, rocks, tree branches, etc if need be to make sure that he archer is having to shoot through a small hole to get to the target.  And of course their distances are all trad distances with the longest being 35 yards.  what has destroyed 3D shoots in California (yes,  I am a ca. native for 55 yrs) is NFAA and its local suck up organization CBH that lobbies for all shoots to be NFAA sactioned.  At OK shoots you actually have to shoot the target like they require,  kneeling, on your stomach, facing away from the target, etc.  Their shoots are a real test to the type of shooting most trad hunters and stump shooter regularly test themselves with in the field.  When Oklahomans come into texas to a major trad shoot they normally take the top three places due to this type of discipline. 

[M60gunner]

I lived in So. CA. and yes there are a lot more than I shoot with now in AZ. For the triple Crown put on by AAE we had 21 Trad shooters the first day. Second day it dropped to 11.

[YosemiteSam]

McDave and others:  I spent a year living in the great state of texas and can attest to the fact that the best trad shooters I ever saw were from Oklahoma.  The reason being is that the type of traditional shoot you describe and wish for is the norm in Oklahoma.  At their shoots they will bring in brush, rocks, tree branches, etc if need be to make sure that he archer is having to shoot through a small hole to get to the target.  And of course their distances are all trad distances with the longest being 35 yards.  what has destroyed 3D shoots in California (yes,  I am a ca. native for 55 yrs) is NFAA and its local suck up organization CBH that lobbies for all shoots to be NFAA sactioned.  At OK shoots you actually have to shoot the target like they require,  kneeling, on your stomach, facing away from the target, etc.  Their shoots are a real test to the type of shooting most trad hunters and stump shooter regularly test themselves with in the field.  When Oklahomans come into texas to a major trad shoot they normally take the top three places due to this type of discipline.

So CA shooters are status hungry -- looking for sanctioned approval of their events?  Could also be insurance-related.  An unsanctioned event might be uninsurable in our liability-conscious culture.  Just guessing though. 

[McDave]

McDave and others:  I spent a year living in the great state of texas and can attest to the fact that the best trad shooters I ever saw were from Oklahoma.  The reason being is that the type of traditional shoot you describe and wish for is the norm in Oklahoma.  At their shoots they will bring in brush, rocks, tree branches, etc if need be to make sure that he archer is having to shoot through a small hole to get to the target.  And of course their distances are all trad distances with the longest being 35 yards.  what has destroyed 3D shoots in California (yes,  I am a ca. native for 55 yrs) is NFAA and its local suck up organization CBH that lobbies for all shoots to be NFAA sactioned.  At OK shoots you actually have to shoot the target like they require,  kneeling, on your stomach, facing away from the target, etc.  Their shoots are a real test to the type of shooting most trad hunters and stump shooter regularly test themselves with in the field.  When Oklahomans come into texas to a major trad shoot they normally take the top three places due to this type of discipline.

So CA shooters are status hungry -- looking for sanctioned approval of their events?  Could also be insurance-related.  An unsanctioned event might be uninsurable in our liability-conscious culture.  Just guessing though.

I don't think CA trad shooters are status hungry, or that insurance is an issue.  I think we have just been the poor stepchildren of the compounders.  We get a LOT of 50 yard shots at mixed events, since that is our default shot if the compound shot is more than 50 yards.  We NEVER get shots that really show off the advantages of a trad bow.  Even at trad only shoots, like Petaluma, Maya, and Fresno, we're still standing upright, only at longesh trad distances.  I really think that if trad shoots required shooters to take terrain into account, they would learn to appreciate the advantages of the trad bow.  I also think they would begin to like it for its own sake, and not just because we're trying to hold onto a tradition from the past.  Also, I think they would have a lot more fun.

[Yolla Bolly]

Recently, I was invited by my grandkids to a memorial shoot with the Siskiyou Bowmen between Yreka and Montague.  It was an informal affair: family oriented, with three different 3-D ranges branching out into some diverse terrain. Most shooters had compounds, we were the only group sporting long bows, but I did see a couple of recurves. Very friendly atmosphere, and since there was no formal scoring, we could adjust yardages to fit our capabilities, and change angles to present more difficult shooting windows & positions. There was a separate novelty shoot at a Sasquatch at rediculous range we passed on.. Even had a running boar setup. The kids liked the dinosaur targets. Many of the setups were in rocky terrain that provided appropriate negative reinforcement for unreasonable range shots.

[Roadkill]

Changed my mind after reading about lions on another place—-it is fear of lions.  Since California is about 4 air miles from here, we see lots of deer migrate thru here, with big cats in tow.  Longbowmen fear mountain lions.

[McDave]

Unfortunately, nuttin' we can do about that in California.  Hopefully, you can take care of that problem for us when they stray into Nevada?

[Yolla Bolly]

And all of those problems spewing out of Sacramento, and many others, are what has turned me into a political refugee. Idaho, here I come.