Bareshaft tuning question

[Curvebo]

I have been a lurker for a long time but have fully committed to shooting and hunting with a recurve starting spring 2019. I am shooting a Stalker Coyote recurve 46# @29" draw. I shoot left handed and 3 under. I am searching for the right arrow for this setup and I'm getting the best arrow flight with a 600 spine GT Traditional full length (30.5"), 100 gr brass insert, and 145 gr point.
I can get bullet holes through paper with this arrow setup probably 50% of the time and a nock low and left the other 50% of the time (stiff indication for a lefty). That indicates to me that my form is consistently inconsistent. When I shoot at 15 yards bare shaft and fletched they group together even when 50% of the time the bare shaft flies awesome and the other 50% it flies nock low and left.
It's weird to me the 600 spine gives me the best arrow flight being it is a 15-35 rated arrow and 245 gr up front.  I've tried full length 500's (32.5") and 200-300 gr point but those show a consistent nock left (stiff) no matter the weight up front.
After all that...my questions: Does a 600 spine make sense with my setup? Am I correct in assuming my form inconsistencies are causing poor arrow flight 50% of the time with these arrows? Should I keep looking for the right arrow or just work on my form before wasting more money on arrows? Any other observations are absolutely welcome.
Thanks in advance everyone. This place is awesome for a newb like me.

[McDave]

My draw length is 28”, and I usually shoot GT trads cut to 29” out of my recurves.  For target, I shoot 600’s with a 100 grain point from a 40# bow, and for hunting, I shoot 500’s with 150 or 175 grain broadheads from a 45# bow.  I shoot right handed, 3 under.  I’m considered to have pretty good form, with an occasional wild arrow.  I think my setup is similar to that used by many other people, although not everyone.  Sometimes people write in that they are successfully using setups similar to mine with much heavier points.  I really don’t understand why that works.  I’ve heard of, and understand, what would cause a false weak response, but not a false stiff response.  Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.

[Curvebo]

Thanks for your comment McDave. I searched and searched for false stiff reading and came up empty.

[old_goat2]

The only way you'll know your dialed in for sure is if you shoot broadheads, they are the final tuning benchmark! I would suggest getting some inexpensive (maybe used ones) broadheads that you can change the insert in to vary the weight to experiment with and just hang on to them for future experimenting.

[Friend]

If your setup marks the same with a 145 gn BH versus your 145 field point at 25 yards, then you are likely golden.

The tuned BH far out ways bare shaft discrepancies. Many form related issues may muddy the water.

[old_goat2]

I agree with the above statement, bare shaft is just to get you in the ball park! When you don't have a back wall and a mechanical release, you are going to have some variance and what you want to achieve is a middle of the spine range result that gives you some forgiveness!

[the rifleman]

The nock low indication worries me.  I would correct this first as a too low nocking point can wreak havoc with tuning.  Try moving your nock point up a bit.  You can get away with a lot nock high, but nock low causes all kinds of issues.

I think then you will find a more consistent indication of dynamic spine and can address from there.  Best of luck.

[Al Dean]

I agree it sounds as if your nocking point is low.  Paper should be bullet holes at 6'.  Bare shaft should show slightly nock high.  Broad head tuning is for the broadhead not the arrow tune.  The arrow should be tuned before going to broadheads.  Also to me carbons are totally different from aluminum or wood arrows.

[msavedge]

How big are your groups at 15 yards?  Are your arrows flying straight, or do you have to aim a little to the left of what you want to hit?  What are you using as a side plate? 

I don't know how the center cut is on your bow, but what you're seeing sounds kind of like the trouble I had while tuning a couple weeks ago.  I finally figured out it was being caused by my centershot being off (arrows too close to center).  Before I figured it out, my results were inconsistent - one day 600 spine arrows with 200 grain tips worked, the next day, 500 spine arrows with 125 grain tips worked.  All the arrow recipes I tried seemed to indicate stiff.

Once I changed my arrow rest & moved the arrow farther away from center, things started to work.  Good arrow recipes flew straight and bad ones consistently indicated stiff or weak.  The setups that work best from my 36# bow are 600 spine with 125 grain tip & 500 spine arrow with 200 grain tips, so I'm guessing your arrows might actually be weak, but masked by centershot and/or form. 

How many fletched & bare shafts are you shooting at a time?  Have you tried marking/numbering the arrows to see if the 50% that are showing nock low & left are always the same?  During my tuning I discovered that one of my bare shafts was consistent, but the other one flys like a corkscrew.  Sometimes it groups with the other arrows, sometimes it ends up several inches away from the group.

I recommend taping a toothpick or something to the side of your riser to move the arrow away from your bow's centerline & trying another round of bare shaft tuning.  Also, number your arrows to see if the same ones are constantly behaving differently than the rest.

[Roy from Pa]

[the rifleman]

You had mentioned that you had problems with the tune which sometimes showed up.  Believe me, this is likely a nock height issue.  Get that resolved and then, if your form is solid, you can begin tuning to address spine issues.  A too low nock height will really mess with you.  Ken Beck's video is excellent.  What is your nock height right now?  Im betting 1/2" or less.  Good luck.

[Roy from Pa]

Another area you could address is your brace height.

Raise it and try it, then lower it and try it.

Write down these things as you go so as not to forget where ya was or what ya was doing..

[Curvebo]

Man...thanks everyone for the responses!! I will check my nock height when I get a minute. It was at 5/8" but I have changed my brace height from the last time I checked it so I'm sure it is a little different. I am going to play with that as per suggestions. I also plan on BH tuning after I get consistent bare shaft flight. My groups at 15 yards are anywhere from stacking arrows on each other to 5" or so depending on me. I have been shooting 1 bare shaft and 2 fletched arrows. Maybe I should shoot more of each??

My bow is cut 1/8" past center and it has the commercial Velcro as a side plate. As I look down the string and roughly center it to the limb (I haven't actually taken the time to measure) the arrow is offset from the string a little bit. Not a lot though.

I will definitely watch the video posted. Again thanks for all the suggestions...this place is such a wealth of knowledge and experience. I probably won't get to shoot for a week or so due to being out of town but I will definitely update the thread.

Gabe

[Bldtrailer]

My bow Dale Dye 58 amo  48@26 (I draw 27) gt trads 600 28 3/8ths 50 grn insert 175 tip 2inch 2117 footing bare shaft groups with fletched 25yds (robinhooded fletched shaft)

and out of my Blacktail 62 amo 51@28 flies great groups tight

[kenneth butler]

I shoot a very similar setup but I draw 1/2" more. I can't shoot that much weight up front with 600 and  30 1/2" arrows. Like McDave I go to 500 for heavier hunting heads. My nocking point is right at 5/8 with most bows. Double check your nocking point but I believe you need to add a min. of 5 more yards to get a little truer picture of your tune.Good luck.>>>--->Ken

[Wheels2]

I am a big fan of bare shaft tuning.
IF you have good form.
I use 3/8" electrical connecttion shrink tube to compensate for fletching weight.  I get mine at ACE Hardware.  A 4" piece weight 24 grains.
Slip it on the shaft in place of the feathers and heat to shrink to the shaft.
I shoot them at 15 and 20 yards, watching the arrow flight.  Then when I get good flight I shoot them.with fletched arrows to confirm that they hit together.   If I can get that, broadheads are there as well.
I even use bare shafts to tune a high speed compound to shoot BHS with fletched arrows.

[kenneth butler]

Good idea Wheels2 the shrink tubing might save a final adjustment or two.  When field points with bare shafts, 3 fletch,2 fletch, 3" feathers,and broadheads are all hitting, in the same group,I am tuned. The shrink tubing might shorten the route. Thanks. >>>-----> Ken