Custom vs production

[Tajue17]

custom to me is how I want it exactly,,,, I think many if not most bowyers today offer a platform and you just decide what color you want.  so grips,, okay high,low,med right?  what if I want my grip to be skinny or fat what if I want my grip checkered or maybe I want the shelf ground closer to the strike plate or I want a fletching trough cut in,,,,,,,,,, what if I want arrow holder added into the riser?  many will only do what you see on the website and I do understand that there is a fine line because they have to make sure your happy and if your not after all that work? 

one thing that was new to me recently was tillering,  why is it bowyers ask if you want your bow tillered for 3 under or split only to tiller it the same so the bow can be shot either way??  even though you will never shoot it the other way?  I really wanted to get a new bow recently and wanted an instock bow only to find out they are all tillered the same..... had to go with one of the old school bowyers to have it tillered for how I shoot and now I have to wait a year so I have to wait till the spring to put my order in so I can have it for deer season (Shafer) which is fine. 

production I guess if you want it fast and you don't mind getting it to work for how you shoot sometimes that's not a bad option..  if your fussy like me finding a bowyer who understands you is worth its weight in gold. 

[Roger Norris]

Overspined....you said "I can't imagine shooting a production bow". With that you are disregarding most of the bows that built our sport....Bear, Ben Pearson, etc....

The "mojo", magic, or whatever attachment you feel is in your mind, not the bow.

I have several of Steve Turays bows myself, and have killed a bunch of deer with them. My favorite one,my Ramer, happens to be covered in Krylon paint. Yes, my good friend built it, and I take pride in the quality of that bow, but it is a hunting tool.

You say "mojo"...I say "sentiment". And the most sentimental bow in my rack is my Dad's old magnesium riser Bear takedown.  production bow if there ever was one.

[Ray Lyon]

I mostly agree with Roger's analysis.  I've had some 'custom bows' made by some of the highly regarded bowyers on this sight and they are excellent bows. But if I'm honest with myself, I've only had one custom bow made for me in 50 years of traditional archery and that's my Northern Mist Shelton.  The reason I say that is I met with Steve Turay when he was up in Michigan's upper peninsula for 2 hours one winter day.  He showed me his workshop (my family was with me), how he built bows on the forms, etc.  The real key was that I shot all of his different models up in his upstairs shooting range for 20-30 minutes, trying each bow back and forth. Really getting the feel of each bow and how it shot.  Once we had the model, we discussed the grip size and style (still part of the custom) and then woods and glass color (cosmetic to some degree).  When we were discussing woods, I was thinking he'd say bamboo or yew or one of the other 'notable' longbow woods of days gone by would be his recommendation.  Instead, he said American Elm was his preference for a core wood, so I went with that and green glass and of course he picked out a piece of Bolivian Rosewood to match the one in the picture of another bow he built that I liked the looks of.  When it came to length, I said what length do you recommend for my 28 inch draw. He said any length you want in the 66-70 inch range and he'd adjust the tapers to fit my draw.  The bow came exactly as I wanted and expected and it's an incredible shooter.  I also have a 'stock' Ramer model he made, same bowyer, purchased without trying or seeing in person.  This is a bow made by what I consider as someone that can produce a custom bow, but I wouldn't call it a custom bow.
Personally, I think if you're buying a bow off the standard form and you're just choosing woods and grip low, medium or high, then you're getting a standard Ford truck with options.  If you're having the shelf customized or unique length and adjusted limb tapers for your longer or shorter draw, meeting with the bowyer in person to pick exact grip, tillering for three fingers under, etc. then I believe you've got a 'custom' bow. 
Anyway, that's my two cents worth. 

[McDave]

There seems to be a question of what “custom” really means.  I'm not sure if I can clarify this, or just add to the fog, but I’ll try.  Very few cars, for example, start out as custom cars: they start out as ‘54 Fords, or whatever.  If a person buys one and chops it, repaints it, changes the engine and exhaust system, etc., then it becomes a custom car.  Some people might go the other way and try to keep a ‘54 Ford as close to the way it came out of the factory as possible, and while that might require as much money as customizing it would, it's done for a different purpose and doesn’t result in a custom car.

I could do the same thing with a bow.  I could buy a ‘59 Bear Kodiak, not a custom bow, and change the grip and limbtips and make it into a custom bow.  I don't know why anybody would want to do that, as it would ruin the value of a classic, but they could if they wanted to.  OTOH, you could buy an already made bow from any bowyer who happens to have one for sale, and if he just ships it to you without changing it to suit your preferences, then it's not a custom bow.  If you call a bowyer and agree on the poundage, the grip, the length, the tiller, the wood, and the finish, then it's a custom bow, even though he uses the same forms he uses to make all of his bows.  Some ILF bows made with metal risers in factories may cost more and shoot better than some custom bows made by some individual bowyers, but they aren't custom bows unless you have enough clout to get the factory to change things to suit your individual preferences.

Another definition of custom would be a bow that is unique because of the material it is constructed from or other factors that make it one of a kind.  An example of this would be a yew self bow.  Every piece of yew is different, so every bow is going to be different even if the bowyer constructs each one as close to the same way as he can.  The same could be said of some more modern traditional bows, but the differences are not as obvious to me as self bows.  For example, I wouldn't consider a wood bow constructed in a factory custom, even though no two pieces of wood are going to be exactly the same.

The original question is a valid question, as long as we understand what the question means.

[GCook]

You may be right in the analogy of the Ford with options added to a point.
However most people buy a Ford with a given package off the lot not order one with only what they want and wait for the factory to deliver.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[cwegga]

There seems to be a question of what “custom” really means.  I'm not sure if I can clarify this, or just add to the fog, but I’ll try.  Very few cars, for example, start out as custom cars: they start out as ‘54 Fords, or whatever.  If a person buys one and chops it, repaints it, changes the engine and exhaust system, etc., then it becomes a custom car. 

Some ILF bows made with metal risers in factories may cost more and shoot better than some custom bows made by some individual bowyers, but they aren't custom bows unless you have enough clout to get the factory to change things to suit your individual preferences.


The original question is a valid question, as long as we understand what the question means.

I'd argue that you are contradicting yourself there. Any ILF bow that doesn't come as a complete is probably a custom. What is more custom than picking out a riser, limbs, string, rest, and plunger/sideplate and having them come together into a complete bow?

To answer the original question...I would consider a custom except I don't like wood. I appreciate things made out of metal much more. I haven't seen custom bowyers crafting bespoke metal or carbon risers but I would like it if they did, even though I probably don't have the money to afford one.

I get that connection/sentiment/whatever with my bow because I have assembled it and put it together myself to be what I want. I'm not sure a bow crafted by someone else however perfectly for me could equal the connection I have with a warf where I saved the riser from the trash, and gathered all the parts myself, and put together a unique thing myself.

[McDave]

I won't argue with you, because you have as much right to your opinion as to what custom means as I do.  For me, assembling components of an ILF bow, where none of the components were custom made, does not make it a custom bow.  Maybe if you made or customized some of the components yourself, then it would.  I think we can agree that it is not a clear black and white distinction.  For example, if I machine my own grip and put it on an ILF bow, does that make it a custom ILF bow, or just a custom grip?

[Alexander Traditional]

I wasn't going to get into this one,but changed my mind.

I think anything that would come out of his shop would be custom. All of the bows I have were built out of small one man shops.

To answer your question, I think it would be a great option to offer something that would appeal to a bigger market,and still have the quality of a small one man shop.

[Ray Lyon]

adjectiveNORTH AMERICAN
adjective: custom
1.
made or done to order for a particular customer.

[Overspined]

At the heart of it, custom would be made for YOU, as Ray points out. I’ve made forms to satisfy customer needs and always take hand measurements, draw length, etc to build a custom bow for someone. They shoot, pick, and decide. It’s as custom as I can get...

All in all, it’s preference in all ways and yeah, sentiment has a lot to due with traditional archery, to me anyways...there’s only been a couple bows I actually did not enjoy shooting of the many, many, many I’ve shot.

[Bowwild]

I've owned a variety of bows. Most were from 1 or 2 person operations. Most of those were used or stock. I recall only "ordering" only 3-4.  For one of those bows I had clear glass hand-selected from a friend at Gordon Composites and carbon was provided from stock that Earl Hoyt used to own. I even provided a grip profile that I liked. It is the bow B/W ebony in my profile picture.

I love beautiful wood, especially exotic burls or Macassar Ebony.  However, my current shooter is any thing but and very much a production ILF - the carbon riser Lobo by TT.  It is simple, light weight, well made, has a terrific (jaeger) grip, and quick shooting at my 26" draw.

By the way, out of 30-40 bows, I've only owned two that I thought I'd never get rid of.  One of those two I sold the day after receiving it. The other lasted a bit longer. But, in the end all of them buy 6 have gone on to other owners.

[Crooked Stic]

As long as it is made in USA I would buy it. A real custom bow that is your grip tillered for you and built for  best performance at your draw dont come cheap. also need to be quite and stable.

[Chain2]

Custom for me. Drawlength is the biggest thing I guess. (31”) Then maybe grip. I wanted a shorter bow for pop up blind use. I also wanted a T/D. So I called Greg Coffey. Getting closer.