Concern for direction of hunting

[1Arrow1Kill]

Some of the comments here sure did bring a smile to my face.  I recall in '68, '69, '70 & '71 juggling .22 LR and 12 gauge shells in my front pocket trying hard to stay at school until my last class was complete (made it - some days).  We'd run to the parking lot and fly down the road to a local farm where we'd chase after the plentiful ring-neck pheasants north of Holland.  Around 2000 my sons were told in HS that they could not even bring their bows to school, so they found a guy close to school who would let them drop off their bows and guns before school and get them right after.  These days I often get hassled by all manner of folks when they see me sporting my camo Spyderco Para Military EDC knife.  Oh well, they'll probably get over it . . .

[pavan]

I just remembered another high school episode.  The longer lockers were on the second floor. Along the biology lab. The biology teacher we call Bear, when Bear took his between classes break, he would go to my locker, load his pipe with my Balkan Sobranie pipe tobacco, grab an outdoors magazine and go down to the teachers lounge.  One day he came by and sat down by me in the study hall.  He asked, "How long have you had that Browning automatic?  I see you have an improved cylinder choke on it, but what i don't get is how do you think you are going to be able to take a pheasant down with 7 and half shot?"  We quite often would boogy out of school early during pheasant season with one of the teachers that had a station wagon or the two that had International Wagonmasters, so we kept everything in our lockers. One of the advantages of having a last period study hall.  It was completely understood that the hunting seniors wanted the junior floor lockers for keeping their guns and bows in.  Nothing was ever locked and nothing was ever stolen.  When my son went to Northern Iowa, he lived in off campus designated housing that was almost a mile off campus and he was not allowed to even have bows and arrows inside apartment or even in his car.  A rule which made no sense to him, he did not follow it, because in high school, he was allowed to take his longbow to school with him during the archery week of PE.

[Terry Green]

I'm sorry but I had to delete a post, we're not gonna start calling people out....  Especially when they are making heartfelt statements.  Your comments were totally uncalled for and shows that you are probably on the wrong site.

ET all...Next time you travel check out and see if you can get on Tradgang on the business center's computer.......

[elkhunter45]

I have no worries and here is why. I have now lived long enough to see that the pendulum always swings back the other direction in due time. Those that pursue this sport is made up of a very diverse group. Some are in the toddler stage and are exploring every room in the house while some are now in the senior adult center. This has nothing to do with age per say, but rather is a mindset. There will be some who prefer the gadgets and easier route to the end and then there will always be a minority that choose to do it the hard way. Neither is right or wrong, but rather a manifestation of something from within. I'm sure the Thompson brothers would have considered Fred Bear of taking a shortcut with that newfangled glass stuff that he backed his bows with.  The journey is different for us all. I choose to enjoy the journey and I will spend camp time with those that choose a different route. Who knows if someday you will meet up with them and they are now more "traditional" than you.   

[Butch Speer]

I have no worries and here is why. I have now lived long enough to see that the pendulum always swings back the other direction in due time. Those that pursue this sport is made up of a very diverse group. Some are in the toddler stage and are exploring every room in the house while some are now in the senior adult center. This has nothing to do with age per say, but rather is a mindset. There will be some who prefer the gadgets and easier route to the end and then there will always be a minority that choose to do it the hard way. Neither is right or wrong, but rather a manifestation of something from within. I'm sure the Thompson brothers would have considered Fred Bear of taking a shortcut with that newfangled glass stuff that he backed his bows with.  The journey is different for us all. I choose to enjoy the journey and I will spend camp time with those that choose a different route. Who knows if someday you will meet up with them and they are now more "traditional" than you.   

Very good post. I won't tell someone how to hunt cause I don't want someone tell ing me how to hunt.

[GCook]

Generally speaking our differences make us stronger.
Diversity has many benefits.  I guess that's why is alluded to in scripture as well.  One body, many parts. 

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[Sam McMichael]

!Arrow1Kill's comment was amusing, because I remember some of these same events regarding hunting and school. It was very common to take guns and hunting equipment to school. In the 7th grade, we studied WWII, and some brought military items to a show and tell day. I took a folding stock M1 carbine for my exhibit. I don't think that would work today. And now, he caught grief for carrying his knife.

I enjoy discussing and debating where trad archery is going when talking with members here, because, after all, we are all family and this is important to our lifestyle. However, when it comes to taking grief from people outside the hunting world, I am not always so understanding. Not too long ago, I was wearing a T-shirt with a picture of Howard Hill and his elephant - you know the picture. A little old lady accosted me. First, she didn't know what the picture was about, and when I told her, she stated her objections to hunting. We actually had a civil conversation. Yet, on another occasion, a loud mouth guy got up in my face and started into a forceful diatribe in which he condemned all hunting and questioned my canine ancestry. I had two response for him. I suggested he get a running start and kiss my a$$. Then warned him to get out of my face before I cleaned his clock, and, yes, I intended to do exactly that. I was not such a good ambassador for our lifestyle that day, but he did pipe down. Anti-hunters are doing the most to try to affect the direction of hunting, in my opinion. These comments are a little deviation from the original direction of the discussion here, but they are very relevant. Our discussions about technology are philosophical in nature, but the anti-hunting sentiment has become very political, which is a greater threat to the direction of hunting overall, not just to trad bowhunting.

[Macatawa]

!Arrow1Kill's comment was amusing, because I remember some of these same events regarding hunting and school. It was very common to take guns and hunting equipment to school. In the 7th grade, we studied WWII, and some brought military items to a show and tell day. I took a folding stock M1 carbine for my exhibit. I don't think that would work today. And now, he caught grief for carrying his knife.

I enjoy discussing and debating where trad archery is going when talking with members here, because, after all, we are all family and this is important to our lifestyle. However, when it comes to taking grief from people outside the hunting world, I am not always so understanding. Not too long ago, I was wearing a T-shirt with a picture of Howard Hill and his elephant - you know the picture. A little old lady accosted me. First, she didn't know what the picture was about, and when I told her, she stated her objections to hunting. We actually had a civil conversation. Yet, on another occasion, a loud mouth guy got up in my face and started into a forceful diatribe in which he condemned all hunting and questioned my canine ancestry. I had two response for him. I suggested he get a running start and kiss my a$$. Then warned him to get out of my face before I cleaned his clock, and, yes, I intended to do exactly that. I was not such a good ambassador for our lifestyle that day, but he did pipe down. Anti-hunters are doing the most to try to affect the direction of hunting, in my opinion. These comments are a little deviation from the original direction of the discussion here, but they are very relevant. Our discussions about technology are philosophical in nature, but the anti-hunting sentiment has become very political, which is a greater threat to the direction of hunting overall, not just to trad bowhunting.

 
Made my day!!!!    LOL     

[amicus]

I've been reading this thread since the beginning and been thinking about it a lot. Started to respond several times and then changed my mind. So many things to say about the lack of woodsmen ship and causes. The biggest killer of woodsmen ship is profit. Not that all profit is bad but there is an imbalance today. Just spend 30 minutes watching the outdoor channel and you'll see what I mean. One of the most popular shows is about a guy that drives around in high fenced areas looking for game and then shoots them in the head with what ever new gun/bow he is promoting. Probably wearing flip flops as well.That's not hunting but that's what young or ignorant people see. Lack of accessibility to property is another reason. Here in Texas you can't step on some ones land with out paying big bucks. Even with all the parks we have today you just can't wonder around. There are rules you know. The days of Jeremiah Johnson are almost gone. Replaced by the likes of "Pig Man".

Why learn how to read a compass when you can pay guide to drop you off and pick you up. Why learn to skin/gut an animal when a guide will do it for you. Why learn to track when a guide will do that for you. Its easier to pay and more the norm for a lot of people than DIY type hunts. When I tell people about my DIY hunts they respond by saying I'm crazy. They don't have time for that, they want to go in and kill and get out, no skill, mess, no fuss. I think people like that are really missing out. But for some that's what they want, I really don't care.

Not sure if the OP mentioned this but I know a few have. I have hunted in a lot places in a lot of ways. To me, the truest sense of hunting is spot and stalk. To glass for game and then try to get close and bag it is the ultimate experience and the truest from of Hunting. But I have also hunted by feeders and to be honest when I see game and decide to shoot my hearts is pounding as fast as it did on a spot and stalk.
 I see no difference hunting by a feeder or hunting under an oak tree dropping acorns. Its a food source. Deer are browsers that don't wait for feeders to go off. I think a lot of people have unrealistic ideas of deer herds running to a feeder when it goes off. There might be places like that but I've never hunted them.
I don't think sitting in a box all warm and fuzzy eating tacos a hundred yards away from a feeder is hunting but if I couldn't pull a bow back that's probably what I would do. Enjoy the way you hunt, appreciate the outdoors, recognize Gods work and give him thanks.
   

[Modad2010]

This has been an interesting thread to follow. I, too, have thought of replying before now but wasn't sure how to explain my thoughts. I started hunting rabbits and pheasants in my teens, bow hunting with compounds in my early 20's, bird hunting (quail and pheasant) with pointing dogs in my mid 20's, a brief stint with a recurve in my early 30's, and now fly fishing and deer hunting with a longbow in my early 50's. In the beginning of each of these stages of my hunting life, success was measured with the number of animals killed or fish landed. As I matured in my knowledge and skills, the way I measured success changed too. A successful bird hunt didn't have to include a limit of birds - it might have been a great retrieve by my dog or the way he handled a running pheasant. The stint with the recurve was done with the bow of a deceased uncle in honor of him - a doe that is still the most meaningful hunt I've ever had. The fly rod and longbow have come along to bring challenges to the lifestyle I love that have seemed to become lacking in something. What that is I don't really know. I think, as mentioned by others, that the "industry" of hunting has done everything to make hunting easier. I never hunted because I wanted it to be easier, I wanted a challenge. I want to put my skills to the test of my quarry's instincts and senses. I want to get close to a deer - really close and if I get a shot - great. If not, then I was still successful. I feel, as I've aged, it's more about the journey and the experience than it is about the destination. I guess I don't really care how someone else goes about their hunting as long as they obey the law. I do feel that by depending too much on technology they are depriving themselves much of the enjoyment the journey has to offer.

[Jon Stewart]

My mom who was a state champion archer while being disabled since  age 11 years (had to use crutches) taught archery in public grade schools around the city back in the 60's.  You know that ain't happening in today's world and what a shame.

[Bvas]

My mom who was a state champion archer while being disabled since  age 11 years (had to use crutches) taught archery in public grade schools around the city back in the 60's.  You know that ain't happening in today's world and what a shame.

NASP is alive and well in public schools??
My daughter is on her schools team.

[GCook]

A Colorado otc elk tag is over $600 now right?  Add travel and camp expenses plus not getting paid while I'm off work and the cost goes way up.  But say I could do a DIY hunt for $1200.  Average of archery elk success is 11% I believe.  I've seen numbers that suggest DIY is closer to 7% and outfitted closer to 20%.  So if I hunt enough years dropping $1200 plus time off I might get an elk.  Or I can drop $6000 on a quality outfitter in a private area and kill one most years I go.  Personally I'm not geared for spending money on failure.  I've done the DIY thing.  We had fun but every year one of four of us would get an elk.  And that was rifle hunting 2+ decades ago.
I don't blame anyone who wants to maximize their chance of success with the limited money and time most of us have to hunt on. 

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[Trenton G.]

It's interesting reading about how everyone used to store their weapons while in school. I used to thing my bow and rifle depending on the season and just cover them with a blanket on the back seat.

In woodshop, I built a recurve my junior year and a long ow my senior year. Both times I had one teacher who gave me a pretty hard time about building a weapon in school, and even talked to the principal about it. Of course I didn't have any arrows  or anything so it was no more a weapon than every other piece of lumber in the shop at the time. That was pretty much what the principal told the teacher and I didn't have more issues.

I see that the archery in the schools program is really starting to take off, which is fantastic. Sure, most of them are learning in compounds, but at least they are getting exposed to the sport!

[Macatawa]

This has been an interesting thread to follow. I, too, have thought of replying before now but wasn't sure how to explain my thoughts. I started hunting rabbits and pheasants in my teens, bow hunting with compounds in my early 20's, bird hunting (quail and pheasant) with pointing dogs in my mid 20's, a brief stint with a recurve in my early 30's, and now fly fishing and deer hunting with a longbow in my early 50's. In the beginning of each of these stages of my hunting life, success was measured with the number of animals killed or fish landed. As I matured in my knowledge and skills, the way I measured success changed too. A successful bird hunt didn't have to include a limit of birds - it might have been a great retrieve by my dog or the way he handled a running pheasant. The stint with the recurve was done with the bow of a deceased uncle in honor of him - a doe that is still the most meaningful hunt I've ever had. The fly rod and longbow have come along to bring challenges to the lifestyle I love that have seemed to become lacking in something. What that is I don't really know. I think, as mentioned by others, that the "industry" of hunting has done everything to make hunting easier. I never hunted because I wanted it to be easier, I wanted a challenge. I want to put my skills to the test of my quarry's instincts and senses. I want to get close to a deer - really close and if I get a shot - great. If not, then I was still successful. I feel, as I've aged, it's more about the journey and the experience than it is about the destination. I guess I don't really care how someone else goes about their hunting as long as they obey the law. I do feel that by depending too much on technology they are depriving themselves much of the enjoyment the journey has to offer.

"..it's more about the journey and the experience than it is about the destination"

[Overspined]

Maniacs weren’t shooting up schools back then, but we had a floor of shooters in the dorms and just kept them taken down (bows and guns) in our rooms. In high school ran trap lines before school and hunt after so weapons and critters in the car.

Now police dogs walk the parking lots and flag cars with empty shells, oh  and a knife is automatic suspension so don’t forget to get the hunting knife out of your pocket..

[Wudstix]

"..it's more about the journey and the experience than it is about the destination"  "And what a long strange trip it's been!!!