Arrows for my excellent swap bow...

[OkKeith]

Hey ya Bowyer's Bench Brothers and Sisters...

It's a beautiful Friday morning in Oklahoma and I am obviously spending time thinking about one of my top three favorite things instead of working like I should be.

I have been shooting the spectacular bow that I received from Dannon in the bow swap. The more I shoot it, the more I realize I should probably drive over to Arkansas and buy him a really good steak and all the fixings because I know I really got the better end of the deal.

Through no fault of the bow... I am having some trouble with finding the perfect arrow. Everything I have seems to be too weak or too stiff. I think this has mostly to do with the fact that this is the first bow I have ever had that is 1. Correctly tillered for three under and 2. built for my 31"+ draw length.

When I look at all the spine calculators, they show that with my specifics (full length arrow, 3X4" fletch, 150gr point) that I need a 340 spine. So far the best flying arrows are a set of fletched 2315 XX75s but I would like to have a set of carbon arrows for it.

Here is where I think I need some advice...
I have been looking at the excellently reviewed Dark Timber shafts that Big Jim offers. I am also considering giving in to the heavy FOC craze (a little) and using a 50gr brass insert with my 150gr heads (putting 200gr "Up Front" as the kids like to say now-a-days). Big Jim has the 340 arrows, but will adding 50gr up front make the arrows fly weak?

I know there is no substitute for building an arrow and trying them out. I can't believe that with the LITERALLY hundreds of wood, aluminum and carbon arrows I have, I am having trouble finding the right arrow! All of my arrows are full length and have either 4" or 5" shield or parabolic feathers. Most of them are tuned for recurves with a 125gr point though. Also, all of my current stock of arrows are tuned to shoot at whatever wonky draw weight I end up with by having a longer draw than the AMO poundage at 28" listed on the specific bow I tune them to.

I am not someone who usually let's "the perfect be the enemy of the good". Maybe I have been listening to too many podcasts and reading too may articles.

What say ya'll?

[Bvas]

I don't know how many pounds you are shooting, but I can tell you what I did.

I'm shooting about 54# at my 28.5" draw.
I also got the Dark Timbers in 340 cut down to I think 31".  However, I use a 250gr head.  I bought some of the 50gr inserts to play with, but for right now Im using the standard inserts. 

My suggestion would be to buy some to have and try(also use hot melt to install so you can change them out easily).  I realize with your long draw, shortening arrows is not much of an option.  But even a 1/2" can change the tune quite a bit with carbons.

[Dannon]

Keith thank you for the kind words! I was shooting my 340 spined arrows with a 175grn. Head. They seemed to shoot pretty well, but my draw length wasn’t near as long as yours! Good luck finding the perfect arrow, that has always been the most difficult part of switching over to traditional archery to me.

[OkKeith]

Wow Bvas... you would have thought with all that rambling I would have included that one crucial piece of information.

Dannon... the words are well deserved! I have been shooting "Slim" (I don't name deer, but I do name bows) on a local 3D course. I have had a lot of guys ask about the bow and how smooth it shoots for me with my orangutan arms.

Dannon listed on the limbs that it is 51#@31". I haven't double checked him but that seems right on to me. What I think I will do is order 6 of the Dark Timbers in the 340 spine with both the standard and brass inserts. I will use hot melt to make three of each and shoot bare shafts to see how it goes. If the arrows fly good with the aluminum inserts and my 150 points BINGO! If the brass inserts fly well then Robert is your Mother's Brother!

Thanks for the help guys... everyone else please feel free to chime in as well.

OkKeith

[Mad Max]

OkKeith "(full length arrow, 3X4" fletch, 150gr point)"

FEATHERS??????????

[OkKeith]

Mark-

Yes Sir... either 4" or 5" shield or parabolic feathers on all my arrows. I have a set of GT Trophy Hunter 400s that are close, but show stiff while fletched. I don't really want to strip off good fletching just to see how they bare shaft. I do have some bare GT knock-offs (I don't even remember where I got them, I think they originally said 5555s) that are OK-ish with a 125gr point but show weak with a 150.

I am sorting through everything and pulling a representative of each grouping to try them all with a 125 and 150 grain point. I don't have any 200gr points to test out at the moment. The situation is that I don't have any room to play with arrow length. I pretty much have to have a full length arrow otherwise I will be getting into my hand with the back of the broadhead or jamming into the back of the bow before I get to my anchor point. Soooo... all I can really adjust is the spine and the point weight. I suppose I could do the "weedeater line inside the shaft" trick to monkey with dynamic/static spine, but that's starting to be a little complex for a simpleton like me.

OkKeith

[Bvas]

Remember, DO NOT apply heat directly to the carbon arrow when changing inserts.

Put a practice point in and clamp it in a vice. Then gently pull on arrow while applying heat to the point with a lighter or small torch.

And the weed eater line doesn’t change spine. It is to add weight without changing spine.

[OkKeith]

Bvas...

Can you change the weight of an arrow without changing the spine? I am cool with you telling me I am totally wrong because I am wrong about a lot of stuff and this would be one less thing. I thought spine was somewhat in reaction to the arrow's reluctance to go from sitting still to being moved by the bow string (seems like I saw a SciFi movie somewhere where they mentioned the whole "things at rest wanted to stay at rest" business). Lighter arrows resist the bow string less than heavier arrows do... correct? So, the way I see it in my head is two arrows that are equally bendy but one weighs more than the other, the heavier arrow will bend more than the light arrow when you push on the back of it. Isn't that a "difference" in spine?

Like I said... I am good with being wrong (I'm used to it) but do want to be correct.

Also, I have a brass screw (correct threads) with a big head on it I use to heat and remove inserts. I normally use a dab of super glue on them and it comes loose with just a little heat.

Thanks for the warning though! Ya never can be too careful or remind me too often not to do something dumb. I have the scars to prove that.

OkKeith

[Bvas]

Lol Keith. I’m sure there is somebody that can explain it waaay better than me.
But basically “bendy” is spine. And yes, you can have a light arrow and a heavy arrow that are equally bendy or the same spine.

Adding weedeater line does not effect spine or how bendy the arrow is. It only adds weight without changing spine.

Adding point weight is a different matter all together. More point weight is like putting brakes on the arrow. The arrow pushes against it causing it to flex. The more weight, the more flex, making the arrow seem weaker.

[Mad Max]

[OkKeith]

Bvas and Mark... thanks for the help!

I will just keep swapping around arrows and points until I get it right. Those big fat aluminums fly pretty good though... Hmmm.

OkKeith

[OkKeith]

I guess it has been a while since I have bought any carbon arrows. All the ones I have are marked (at least the ones that still have markings) are labeled in the manner of 5555 and such. It looks like 340s and 400s are what I am looking for.

Still in the hunt for a great flying arrow. The bow is very forgiving as far as what arrows it likes. All of the ones I have shot through it have been flying pretty good.

Maybe I am just looking for an excuse to buy some cool new arrows...

OkKeith