Long Arrows and Gaps

[YosemiteSam]

I've been a gap shooter for the last several years.  I've been hunting with a short recurve for the last 2 years since it's lighter & I can shoot while seated right on the ground.  I haven't liked the larger gaps I've had -- about 18" or so.  My 62" recurve shoots the same arrows with a 8-10" gap but is heavier to tote around and has to be aggressively canted when I'm sitting a** to the grass, which is how I often hunt.  So I put some time into trying to figure out how to shrink the gaps on this short little bow & make less guess-work in the field.

While playing around with a few different arrow lengths & weights, I noticed that they pretty much all hit the same spot out to about 20 yards.  These arrows ranged from 530 - 680 grains and were about 29" - 32" in length.  Spines ranged a little but all were within 10# of each other.  All stacked up in roughly the same spot with no noticeable difference in gaps.  By 30 yards, they show considerable differences in trajectories but only from weight -- heavier arrows drop further.  But otherwise, arrow length didn't seem to matter at all for gaps.

So I took two arrows of different lengths and noticed that, from how I view them under my eye while shooting, there is barely any perceptible difference between the two.  An arrow of 32" long looks about the same as one that's 29" long at that steep angle.  This is shooting 3-under with a middle-finger anchor in the corner of my mouth.  I suspect that somebody shooting split finger or index finger anchor would see more of a difference, though neither of those shooters would really care much about their gaps, I imagine.

So from 0-20 yards, neither the arrow's length nor its weight made much of a difference, if any at all, on my gaps.  Once out to 25-30 yards, weight made a big difference.  But not arrow length.

What seemed to make the most difference was simply the bow I was using.  Switching to a different bow of similar draw weight showed the exact same results but with a smaller gap.  The longer bow, for whatever reason, set with an almost identical nock height, shot 3 under, has half the gap distance.  I've taken video of my face to see if the arrow sits higher on my face at full draw but can't figure out why it has such a smaller gap.  But it does.  Every time.

I'm curious what other things folks may have done to shrink their gaps.  I'm also curious if anybody else has experienced similar results or if my results are just unique to me and my wonky form.

[Orion]

I can't explain why the longer bow would yield smaller gaps unless it's also heavier draw weight or for some other reason faster than the shorter bow.

If arrow length doesn't change your gaps, your eyesight may be part of the problem.  Worth checking into. As you note, at 20 yards, the gaps aren't going to vary much because you're almost at point blank range. If your eyesight is lacking in some way, you may not be able to detect the slight variations.   

As I'm sure you know, some folks change and even eliminate the gaps by string walking or using a fixed crawl.  Have you tried that?

[YosemiteSam]

Eyesight is okay.

Yes, the longer bow is slightly heavier in draw but has more shock (less efficient).  If I ever pick up a chronograph one of these days I'd like to test them out to see which is faster.  But I can't tell any difference.  I doubt it's the length of the bow that has much to do with it so much as just the bow itself.  Unless it has something to do with the string angle...  Alas, endless questions...

Yes, I've tried string walking.  Couldn't figure out a good tune for it, though -- wonky flight.  But now that I think of it, I haven't tried string walking off an elevated rest, which might clean that flight issue up.

[BAK]

You said almost the same nock height.  Not exact?  What about tiller?  One bow different than the other?

[the rifleman]

Arrow length has been the number 1 way I have found in reducing gaps and I have played around with anchor points, nock height, arrow weight, rest materials, etc.  I made up a 35" arrow a couple of years ago that let me keep the point of the arrow on the animal at 15 and 20 yards.  The arrows looked ridiculous and my buddies laughed when they saw them---but the laughing stopped when we started shooting 3D.  They worked great.
Just a guess here, but you may not be realizing the gain from a longer arrow if you are anchoring quite high on your face.  A very high anchor allows you to see less of the arrow from nock to point, thereby negating a few inches difference in length.  I found the longer arrows really effected my trajectory at 30 yards due my perception when aiming---the longer arrow caused my to pitch my aim down further---as I've heard before---about everything in this sport is a compromise...
My current setup features a bit higher of an anchor (middle finger in the corner of my mouth as opposed to index is about as high of an anchor that my form/back tension can stand), a 530 grain arrow from a 44# bow (12gpp).  With this set up I am able to hold the top of my strike plate just below the X at 15 yards and the tip of the arrow at 6 0clock at 20 yards.  From there on I stack (hold above what I want to hit).  I actually found this 530 grain arrow flies flatter for me than a longer arrow that was lighter in weight---this is perception only and has to do with the longer arrow causing me to pitch the sight picture down.  In no way am I saying I have developed an arrow that defies physics
Hope you get it dialed in.  Just curious where you are anchoring.

[YosemiteSam]

Arrow length has been the number 1 way I have found in reducing gaps and I have played around with anchor points, nock height, arrow weight, rest materials, etc.  I made up a 35" arrow a couple of years ago that let me keep the point of the arrow on the animal at 15 and 20 yards.  The arrows looked ridiculous and my buddies laughed when they saw them---but the laughing stopped when we started shooting 3D.  They worked great.
Just a guess here, but you may not be realizing the gain from a longer arrow if you are anchoring quite high on your face.  A very high anchor allows you to see less of the arrow from nock to point, thereby negating a few inches difference in length.  I found the longer arrows really effected my trajectory at 30 yards due my perception when aiming---the longer arrow caused my to pitch my aim down further---as I've heard before---about everything in this sport is a compromise...
My current setup features a bit higher of an anchor (middle finger in the corner of my mouth as opposed to index is about as high of an anchor that my form/back tension can stand), a 530 grain arrow from a 44# bow (12gpp).  With this set up I am able to hold the top of my strike plate just below the X at 15 yards and the tip of the arrow at 6 0clock at 20 yards.  From there on I stack (hold above what I want to hit).  I actually found this 530 grain arrow flies flatter for me than a longer arrow that was lighter in weight---this is perception only and has to do with the longer arrow causing me to pitch the sight picture down.  In no way am I saying I have developed an arrow that defies physics
Hope you get it dialed in.  Just curious where you are anchoring.

Yes, that's probably a better way of describing my results -- high anchor = less benefit from long arrows.  I shoot 3-under with a middle finger anchor.  I can go higher and shave a few more inches off that gap but my form gets all funky since I can't quite find a consistent anchor point up that high on my cheekbone.  So, yes, already quite high.

35" is VERY long.  I don't think I've seen shafts for sale any longer than 32".

[kat]

Sam,
I also gap with my middle finger in the corner of my mouth. Longer arrows have reduced my gap quite a lot. Give a look at Black Eagle Vintage arrows. They are 34" shafts to start with. I use slightly stiffer spines and add weight to the front to compensate. Good luck.