Osage tiller help

[The Ursus]

Back of bow

[Wolftrail]

I disagree, you can have a bow that looks awful unbraced and perfect at full draw. If it isn't right at full draw nothing else matters. Sometimes we overthink this bow making stuff when it is a pretty simple process after all.

That is one of the best Quotes I heard ever on building bows,   I'll hold that thought.

[Mad Max]

[fujimo]

I can only speak for myself, and I certainly don’t have the experience that a lot of bowyers on here have.
The very first bow I made was absolutely terrible, but due to the excellent wood, even though it was massively handicapped by my lack of skill, the bow has refused to destroy itself, I have lent it to so many different people, and I have purposefully not reworked it , and I keep it as a sort of reminder- my “humbling” block - so to speak.
But my point is, as bad and as shocky as the bow is, I can truly stack the arrows with it!
Cos as bad as it is, it’s the same “awefullness” every shot.
But this does not mean that this is a good bow by any means
As I learn and move ahead as a rookie bowyer I simply try and build the very best bow that I can, and personally I use all the technical information that is available to me , to do the best that I can, yet still keeping it simple and enjoyable.

ursus, from my perspective, it does look like the bottom limb is bending more, but i see that limb seems to have a wee bit more deflex in it.
i really like the self bows with flipped tips- has to be my favourite design!

[The Ursus]

Ok, I did some work on the outer 1/3’s with the scraper and did a little scraping near the fade on the lower limb.  I’m not sure that I did much noticeable work.  What do you guys think?

[Pat B]

It's looking better.     Are you exercising the bow after each wood removal?

[The Ursus]

Oh good, glad someone can see a difference.  Sometimes I feel like my eyes play tricks on me.  I’ve been flexing the limbs 20 times or so at maybe 2/3 draw each time I scrape on it. 

[Pat B]

   Good.     Yeah, it's sometimes hard to see good tiller after looking at it over and over again.
 I think it was Eric that suggested looking through squinted eyes. This eliminates the details and giver you a better look at the outlines. If you start feeling frustrated set it aside and go do something else for a while. A fresh eye and refreshed brain helps too.

[Flem]

Something else that can help with tillering, is some contrast. A painted peg board background made a huge difference for me. Certain colors are visually relaxing, just need to find one that works for you.
 

[Eric Krewson]

I have run into a new one on the static recurve I am making. I goofed up and used billets that are not matched, not even close, the tiller looks good but one limb has a quicker return rate than the other. It will shoot a perfect arrow when first strung, three shots later one limb relaxes slightly more than the other it starts shooting tail high arrows. I heat treated the limbs and really picked up the arrow speed but the limb anomaly has not changed.

I know which limb is causing the trouble, today I am going to do a little heat reflexing and tinkering to see if I can overcome the mismatched limbs material. If not it will be limb replacement time.

[The Ursus]

For the same purpose as the painted peg board, I’ve been thinking of a white board with limb contours marked out in one inch intervals. The upper and lower limbs would be exact mirrors of each other.  It seems like curved lines might be better than straight for visual reference. 

In regards to the last couple of pictures, any suggestions on what else I could work on?

(Eric, good luck with the limb issue you’re having, hopefully you will not have to replace it)

[fujimo]

what i do often, is switch ends on the tree, that helps my eyes to not fall into a pattern.

i also used parallel lines on my backing board, but quickly moved away from that, as i dont think that the limbs should match each other exactly, just for the sake of matching each other. as in your case, your lower limb has more deflex in it, if one tries to make the finished arc different to what the starting point was, one will land up with one limb being weaker than the other , and have a bow thats timing is out of whack.

I highly recommend, you do a search on here for "balanced limb timing tillering", i think both Roy and Bowjunkie did writeups on it.
 Its a very simple concept and methodology, and super easy to implement.
it gets your limbs moving in time with each other, and both coming to rest simultaneously.
like eric said above, with his bow , where after a few shots , the limbs are not working like they were first tillered for ( his is for a different reason) it starts shooting all whacky.

of course the other route, maybe, is to do heat adjustments on the original stave, and get it all perfect, then maybe one could aim at the finished profile being closer to matched, but there is still the issue of anomalies in each limb, is the fulcrum on the string centered, is the fulcrum on the bow centered.

what i like to do to simplify my bow building, as i too believe in keeping it simple, is to ignore the anomalies, lay my bow out, dont stress about all that, and simply tiller  so that the limbs are in time, and the string fulcrum point tracks true and in a straight line, i find it a lot easier and simpler to do that , than to fart around with everything else.
but hey, thats just me, everyones mileage will differ!

[Flem]

I agree with Wayne, horizontal or vertical lines are distracting. For some of us it does help to have a visual reference, the dots (holes) in the peg board do the trick for me. If you do decide to use a color background of some type, I recommend using paint with a little gloss. That way you can use a wet erase marker to map out your limbs and still have a clean slate for the next bow.

[Eric Krewson]

There is another component of a good shooting bow that defies description, feel on the shot. I might get good arrow flight but if the bow doesn't feel right to me I keep in tweaking, a little sanding here or there, bend one limb over a little in the handle or whatever.

I can't describe what I am after but know when I get there.

[Mad Max]

My tiller board is level across the top. 1/2" plywood
lines every 2 ",
the block under the riser for a selfbow, can be rotated a little to get both tips level (unbraced) with the lines. the white background helps alot too.

[The Ursus]

Yes, I like Max’s layout.  The diagonal lines make it easy to see what’s going on.  I’m getting some good ideas here guys.  Once I actually start shooting this bow I’ll know more if something needs to change.

[Eric Krewson]

I think I might have tamed the wonky, mismatched limb bow, but won't now for sure until I put a couple hundred arrows through. I did some serious scrutiny of the way the limbs were laying, both were straight from so many heat adjustments. Although the string appeared centered on the handle, when I held the bow it looked just a hair far too the right.

I went over the top limb again with heat straightening until it was as even side to side as a pyramid bow, sure enough it jutted off to the right side just a hair.

I heated the handle at the arrow pass and gave it a slight bend in the right direction to correct the string alignment. When it cooled off I gave the bow a test run; first arrow perfect, second perfect, quit shooting because rain was coming but the bow never shot a bad arrow after a dozen shots.

[The Ursus]

Glad your bow is shooting better Eric, the thought of replacing a limb at my level of expertise does not sound like fun.