OLD GROWTH VS NEW GROWTH CEDAR

[Ari_Bonn]

So  I'm curious.   I  have been flinging only woodies for a few years now. But when i made my very first dozen I had ordered from rose city.   I   did not know at the time of course but if i had that same dozen now I would rate them quite poorly.  I do believe they are new growth.   After breaking  so many  the first time i went out into an open field I started  trying to find other woods that were much more durable.   I   shoot sitka spruce the majority of the time now its a pretty tough wood. 

My question is  for  the oldtimers who  had the really  good old growth or anyone that can  give experience on the subject.  Is it worth  trying wapiti cedar? I hear they use old growth so in theory  they should be much stronger/denser than those ruse city ones that broke on me so easily.  I  really would like to give them a try as  working with cedar gives that lovely smell as well as working the material itself is overall pleasant.   Just wanted some opinions before i pull the trigger as  it does cost a fair bit to ship them up here.

[Deno]

Ari

I liked Wapiti Cedars myself.  You should look over their website or better yet, call or email for the info you're looking for.  I'm sure your questions will be answered.  I've recently have gone to Surewood DF and I am happy with those also.  By the time you get 3 or 4 opinions from the Gang, you'll have your questions answered in a phone call.

Deno

[Orion]

Cedars aren't as durable as Doug Fir, and probably not as durable as Sitka Spruce either, though the spruce seems to be a bit more brittle, in my experience.  I'm not sure it's even legal to cut POC now.  I believe most of it comes from dead and downed trees, which by definition would be old growth. The problem isn't with the "age" of the stock, but the quality.

I've read that there just isn't as much good POC available now; has to do with the grain in the shafts.  The wood that's left isn't as straight, and grain runout on the shafts is much more common. Excessive grain run out can also be caused by lack of quality control in the sawing, of course.  And grain run out means the shafts are more susceptible to breaking.  Some vendors cull a lot of the bad shafts, which costs them money, and some don't.

Unless you can hand select your own shafts or buy from a reputable dealer, it's a crap shoot.  But even the best POC shafts will not take the abuse that good Doug Fir will.

[McDave]

I have come to know Dan and his wife, who own Wapiti, pretty well over the course of meeting and visiting with them a half dozen times or so at shoots around the Pacific Northwest.  They are very reputable and honest.  Once, a friend who bought several dozen shafts from them at a shoot couldn't remember if he had paid for them in advance, and couldn't find any paperwork.  He was supposed to pick up the shafts at the next shoot, which he ended up not being able to attend for some reason or another, and asked me to pick up his shafts for him.  He gave me money to pay for them in case he hadn't paid in advance.  I asked Dan about it when I saw him and he remembered instantly that my friend had given him money in advance, and handed me his shafts.

If you buy Wapiti's standard grade of shafts, there will be quite a few that I would reject for making first-class arrows, and would end up using for stumping.  Their select grade won't have many rejects, although a few will require some “extra attention.”  What I do is buy their premium grade of already finished shafts, all of which arrive perfectly straight, closely matched in weight and spine, and ready to fletch and shoot.  I think they are all personally selected, straightened and finished by Dan's wife.  You could, of course, buy their already fletched arrows, but I like to fletch my own.

[Longbow1415]

I’ve had nothing but exceptional service from Kathy at Wapiti. They are the only people I purchase my cedar shafts from. I only purchase their premium shafts, and it makes sense to purchase several dozen at a time, due to the shipping costs getting them into Canada.
I would have no hesitation in recommending them!

[Terry Green]

Old growth was more durable for me for sure.

[Jim Wright]

I have gotten extremely nice cedar shafts before and I've gotten some that were terrible. I have received quite a few dozen Douglas Fir Shafts from Surewood and I've never had a single shaft I could complain about. And I'm not exaggerating.

[Tim Finley]

Wapiti is first rate you cant go wrong with them and their shafts are bob tailed tapered in the doweling process . Buy the premiums !

[dragonheart]

I have had great experiences with Wapiti and Surewood for woodies.  I once had some old growth acmes that were incredibly straight.  All gone now.