Help please

[Balding Kansan]

So the specs first. Firefly T/D longbow. 62”. Mild reflex. 51 @ 28. I pull 29. Full length cedar shafts. 160 grains lead the way. 613 grain arrow weight. Not a fast flight string. Off the shelf. Does not appear to be cut any past center. Love the bow, I just got it about a month ago. I’ve shot trad for almost 30 years, you’d think I’d be a pro.

I don’t have any aiming method I guess. My eyes are trained on a spot and the arrow point is blurry. I shoot split finger with a glove.

Now the weird stuff that Has to be form related, but I can’t seem to pin it down.

A few things causing me heartache:
1. Occasionally I get awesome grouping, but not on the target. Usually 8” away in any random direction away from bullseye. And not all the arrows in one group. I might shoot 3 high and right in a nice group and 3 low and left also grouped.
2. Once in awhile I get a “riser”. Holding on target and the arrow seems to skip off the shelf and fly way high. But the arrow before or after flew fine.
3. Along with #2. About every 3rd arrow I get a bad knock left during flight.
4. I’ve watched anything I could find from Mr clum or mr Moe, and when I really think about it and try to achieve back tension, I get really erratic arrow flight. I honestly don’t know what is holding my draw arm back. When I release, I do not get the sudden “jerk back” follow through. My elbow might move 1-2” after release. My hand stays by my face mostly and falls dead. I also find it strange, Messing around without the bow, to achieve what I would consider “end of range of motion” back tension, I would be drawing to my ear.
5. I know a video will help. What is the best viewing angle to get this all figured out? And is slow motion better or real time video?

That’s a lot to take in. Sorry. I’ve practiced more preparing for this deer season than any other and I’m not seeing the results I’d like. Thanks a lot for any input!

Tyler

[McDave]

Let’s deal with the easiest one first, and later on we can move on to the others.  Your point #1 indicates that you do not have a consistent anchor point and/or head position.  A change of anchor point by 1/8” results in a change in the point of impact of 6” at 20 yards.  A change in the distance from your dominant eye to the arrow by 1/8” will cause the same 6” error at 20 yards.  The easiest way to get a consistent anchor point is to first come to full draw with your drawing hand slightly away from your face, then move your hand into your face and see where it touches, and memorize that spot.  If you have to move your hand slightly up or down to touch a prominent feature of your face, fine; just don’t move it backwards or forwards away from full draw.  The easiest way to get a consistent head position is to not move your head at all; in other words, move your hand to the anchor point on your head, not vice versa. 

On the positive side, you’re grouping, which indicates that you are capable of doing things consistently from shot to shot.  So work on getting a consistent anchor point and head position, and then come back and let us know how things are coming along.

[Balding Kansan]

Thank you. I will work on that this evening.

[Balding Kansan]

That worked well Dave. Drew out wide and swung around to an anchor that fit well. Grouping was a little better. Still some erratic fliers. Knock left flight mostly. I also noticed that I am a lot more comfortable at full draw and able to focus on the target better, before I would get the shakes and fall apart.

[McDave]

Great!  Now start focusing on the occasional high flyers. This is something that plagues me occasionally too. I find that my high flyers are caused by one of two things:  either I am accidentally focusing on the arrow point rather than the spot I want to hit, or I jerk slightly down on release which sends the arrow high. Normally, if you think back, you can remember if you jerked the release and can try to engage your back muscles and relax your arm and hand more on the next shot. If you don't think you jerked the release, you probably accidentally focused on the arrow point rather than the spot you wanted to hit. If this happened, it can usually be avoided if you consciously focus on the spot on the next shot and make sure the arrow point stays blurry in your peripheral vision.

If the high misses become more frequent than occasional, you may be holding your string elbow too low without noticing it.

You are beginning to notice the compounding effect of success, which is common to many things we do other than archery: nothing begats success more than having a positive attitude based on previous successes.

[Balding Kansan]

I’ll be surprised if this works....

[Balding Kansan]

[Balding Kansan]

Couple things I’ve noticed since watching. I bear grip the bow right before release, which surely isn’t helping with my horrible torque problem. I didn’t mean to, but by setting up in front of that fence, it makes a gridded backdrop to see the arrow flex, which it looks like it’s field point up.

[McDave]

Your shot seems very solid to me. More like the dead release that I use rather than a dynamic release. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to learn to shoot with a dynamic release, I’m sure you can. If you want to work on your grip and torquing, try holding the bow with only your thumb and forefinger, and just let the tips of the other fingers rest on the back of the handle.  Your knuckles should be at about 45* to the handle.  Adjust your string elbow up and down until all the force is a straight back pull with no downward pressure on the nock. I hope Arne chimes in, because he usually sees things I don’t.

[McDave]

As a test to ensure that I am not torquing the bow with either my bow hand or my string hand, I will sometimes open all of my bow hand fingers at full draw so the grip is resting only on the V between my thumb and fingers.  Then I will wobble the bow back and forth slightly using my string fingers to ensure that the bow is moving freely in response to the movement of my string fingers.  Then I will gently wrap my index finger around the handle and touch the handle with the tips of my other fingers, while keeping my string fingers in the same neutral position so there is no torquing pressure of my string fingers against the string.  While I don't do this test every time I draw the bow, I do try to keep the same neutral position of my string hand and bow hand on every shot, checking myself from time to time with this test to make sure I haven’t inadvertently introduced any torque.

[moebow]

Okay.  Here's what I see. 

First, I agree with McDave about your bow hand.  Starting with your fingers sticking out like that puts unneeded tension in your bow forearm AND then as you get ready to shoot, you close the fingers which changes that tension.  The muscles of the forearm should be relaxed and stay that way.  Why have tension there that is not needed?  Best way for me to describe further (if you want it) is to refer you to my video on You Tube called Bow arm/bow hand. Rather than trying to type a length explanation.   I will suggest that as you draw and release you want NO!! finger movement, set that hand and keep it there from begining of shot to end.

Second, watch your string side shoulder blade in the first video.  As you draw, it moves pretty nicely into a good full draw position.  Then, as you release see how it jumps forward?  Ideally, it should continue out towards the camera.  As it is now it is showing a collapse exactly when you don't want one.  That is a danger of a static release.  I didn't notice if that's your desired release technique or not.  But whether you want a static release or a dynamic one, that protruding shoulder blade needs to stay where it is OR move back some more.  Right now that movement forward is what is causing your string hand to pop out away from your face.

Arne

[Balding Kansan]

Thank you Arne. I’ve watched the video you recommended, plus a couple others. Right or wrong, I’m working on a static release so I’m at least not stuck between the two types. I will continue shooting and post another video in a day or so. Thanks again.

[Balding Kansan]

So I thought I’d post an update. For the heck of it, I shot a few rounds 3 under and my shooting was instantly more consistent than before. Although every few shots I’d still have an erratic flier. I was most certain those were caused by my glove, because if I got an erratic arrow, my ring finger would ache a little. Like maybe it was the last to let go of the string. So again, for the heck of it, I ordered a tab. Wow, that really cleaned things up and I’m grouping nicely using the tab and incorporating the help from Dave and Arne. Thanks guys, I haven’t shot this well in a long time. I find it odd trying to anchor with that flap of leather, but continue to work every chance I get.

[McDave]

Happy things are going better for you, Tyler. I also use a tab.  When you said you anchor with “that flap of leather” I had to draw an arrow to see if the tab really touches my face.  It does, but the only thing I’m aware of is my index finger touching my anchor.