Gap shooters

[Iowabowhunter]

Shooting 3 under, what's the best way to reduce your point on distance, as well as your gaps?

Is it longer arrows, heavier arrows etc?

Thanks

[McDave]

In my opinion, the best way to lower the point on distance when using 3 under with gap is the fixed crawl.  This has been described in videos by Jimmy Blackmon, which you can find on YouTube, and most recently by Jason Westbrock in the Dec-Jan 2020 edition of Traditional Bowhunter.  This is a refinement of string walking, without all the fuss.  You decide where you want your point on to be.  In my case, I decided 25 yards, and you experiment until you determine where you should hold the string in order to achieve that point on.  My string looks like this:

I hold the string under the extended lower tied-on nock, and my point on is 25 yards.  If I want to shoot 50 yard shots, I hold the string right under the arrow nock instead, and I get a 50 yard point on.  I extend the tied on nock, rather than put a separate indicator for the 25 yard point on, because having a separate tied on indicator feels awkward when I want to hold the string under the arrow nock for longer shots.  For distances from 15-30 yards, I place the arrow point slightly under or over point on, holding the string under the extended lower tied on nock.  At 35 yards and above, I hold the string right under the arrow nock, and place the arrow point slightly under or over depending on the distance. Personally, I wouldn't take a hunting shot over 25 yards, but I like to practice at longer distances.

The problem with this is that it is not allowed for 3D competitions, so it is only useful for hunting.  For 3D competitions, I always hold under the arrow nock, but I gap off the top of the strike plate. Normally, the top of my stock strike plate is about a 25 yard point on.  If it isn't, you can either trim it or use whatever point on it turns out to be.  1” is allowed over the top of the arrow on the strike plate without violating most tournament rules.  For distances beyond 30 yards, I gap off the arrow point rather than off the strike plate.

Of course, you can either shoot longer arrows or heavier arrows, but this reduces bow performance, which I don't like, so I don't do that.

[Iowabowhunter]

I have heard a bit about the fixed crawl, and that's very intriguing to me.

My only concern is that I dont have nor do I want an ILF bow. Looking at a Black Widow or another Tall Tines recurve and I'd want it to tune well of course.

I am first and foremost a bowhunter, the 3d shoots I do go to are just for fun anyway.

[McDave]

You should really read the article by Jason Westbrock in the Dec-Jan 2020 Traditional Bowhunter.  It really opened my eyes.  The string you see in my photo is on a BW ASA-X, which is like a PSA except is their 60th anniversary edition.  What Jason does is to tune the bow while shooting at the fixed crawl grip.  I wasn't even going to use my ASA for hunting, because it is so beautiful, until I saw how perfectly it tuned at the fixed crawl grip.  The bare shafts center perfectly out to 30 yards, with .500 spine Victory VAP's and 200 grains up front.  I can't NOT hunt with this bow as well as it tunes with the fixed crawl grip!  I'll just have to try hard not to scratch it too much in the field.

[Jim Casto Jr]

First:  These single-string bows aren't as touchy as a lot of folks think.  Feathers can cover a lot of tuning ills. I've been shooting a 20 yard crawl on my hunting bow for several years and it's deadly poison.  On all distances to 25 yards, the broadhead is on the kill zone of deer-sized critters.  Close, I put the broadhead on the heart; at 25 yards the broadhead is on the top of the lungs; end result is a beautiful bloodtrail. 

So... you can use longer arrows, raise your anchor, use a fixed crawl, use a heavier arrow, or raise your nocking point.  Yes, you can raise your nocking point and broadheads will fly fine--to a point.  There is a place where it can get extreme, but you'll be surprised how much you can get away with.

You might find this video interesting and informative too:

[Captain*Kirk]

My only issue with fixed crawl is that you need to shoot 3 under. I tried 3U and don't feel comfortable with it.

[McDave]

Jim, it seems to me that the shooter in the video is really using a fixed crawl.  He is raising his upper nock point without raising his lower nock point.  If he is still gripping under the lower nock point (and hopefully his arrow nock is not slipping down when he releases the shot) then he has a gap between his grip and the arrow nock, which is essentially a fixed crawl.

[Jim Casto Jr]

Oh... and similar to Dave, here's my 20 yard crawl. 

[Jim Casto Jr]

Dave,

No, he raised both.  You may not be familiar with Dewayne Martin.  He is probably in the top 10 barebow shooters in the country.  He was the barebow shooter on the 2017 USA 3-D team that won the gold medal in Robion France.

Edit:  ... and he was in the final four at the Lancaster Classic in 2017 and 2018.

[McDave]

Sorry, it appeared in the video that he wasn’t adjusting the lower nock point, but that evidently wasn’t the case.

[mahantango]

Wow, cool targets!

[Maddog20/20]

Did I miss it or did someone already mention The Push video and podcast?  They go into exhaustive detail about how and why they do fixed crawl.


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[Iowabowhunter]

I guess I don't understand how the fixed crawl method can stay in tune.

I understand if you only ever address the string @ the fixed crawl position, I can tune to that. However for longer shots, as mentioned above you would address the string directly under the arrow- that would/should throw off tune right? Since you are putting different pressure on the limbs?

If not then i'll 100% shoot fixed crawl out of my new BW. Otherwise I think shooting a lighter # bow I don't think my point on will be a crazy distance. Still in testing of course!

[McDave]

The fixed crawl is a type of string walking.  In string walking, the shooter places his drawing fingers on different spots on the string below the arrow nock that correspond to point on at various distances.  Of course, the shooter does not re-tune for each distance, so the bow will be slightly out of tune at all distances except for one.  For string walkers, they consider the error in tuning to be worth it for the gain in accuracy they get from having a point on shot at every distance they plan to shoot.

Since it would be awkward to hunt using string walking, although some people do it, the fixed crawl was invented to mark the one position on the string that equates to the distance where you expect to make most of your hunting shots.  Shots plus or minus five yards from there should still be within the kill zone of the fixed crawl spot.  Most hunters who put a fixed crawl on their hunting bow use it for every shot they make, just like you would use the arrow nock for every shot you make if you didn't have a fixed crawl location.  On my bow that has a fixed crawl, I tune it at the fixed crawl location, rather than at the arrow nock.  While it would be possible to ignore the fixed crawl and hold under the arrow nock for longer shots, the purpose of a fixed crawl is to eliminate as many decisions as possible, so you don't screw up and accidentally grab the string at the wrong place in a hunting situation.  So it makes sense to shoot every shot with your hunting bow from the fixed crawl location, if you think that might be a problem for you.

[YosemiteSam]

Reducing PO distance -- make them longer, make them slower (increase arrow weight per pound of draw), get the nock closer to your eye.  Most of the time, it will be some combination of those three that fits you the best.

[the rifleman]

I played around with arrow length and weight a year or two ago, looking to get my point on within my short hunting distances.  Here are my notes.  This is not an apples to apples scientific study-- the three arrows combine both different lengths and different weights.  I share this just to show what i found.  My anchor was middle finger corner of mouth three under.
While the very heavy arrow gave very small gaps close up, you can see how comparitively unforgiving it is as distance increases.  Range estimation is critical because of its significant drop.
Ive found tucking my chin in toward my bow arm shoulder tightens up gaps by getting the eye closer to the arrow.
Again, just some notes on my results.  Hope this helps.

[Silent footed]

I would agree with the fixed crawl method; although depending on how your bow is tillered it can throw things off kilter a bit. You just have to try and see: if it's quiet, and flies consistently then go for it! You will likely need to adjust the nocking point as too large a fixed crawl will cause porpoising.

When I shot 3 under, I just didn't want to use a fixed crawl. What I did was step up my shaft length to 29", raise the spine WAY up, and add a heavy point. Basically just shooting long heavy arrows. I also switched to Doug fir instead of cedar because of the higher mass weight,, and as a byproduct reduced the amount of broken arrows I used to get with cedar.. it helps a bit.. Using a 53# bow, I had a point on of about 38ish yards, which was NICE, as my goal was to have my point on at my maximum hunting distance. I also raised my anchor point to middle finger of corner of mouth, but the index finger felt a lot better and eventually lowered it again.  I can't say what the point on would have been with the higher anchor.  I didn't shoot it that way for very long. Probably a few yards less. All those things will help you. But the fixed crawl will definitely help the most. I just wasn't a fan of it myself. Too clumsy to nock and shoot in a hurry with my style of hunting.

[Silent footed]

By the way, the fixed crawl method alone, will result in a lower point on distance AND a flatter trajectory. 

The heavier longer arrow method will lower your point on but give a steeper trajectory arc.

Something to think about, depending on your needs.