Low FOC Question

[DesertDude]

Hey Big, I have the same problem. I went to a .300 spine carbon, front loaded to get the FOC I wanted and bare shaft tuned.........

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by bigcountry:
 

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
 

No - why do you think that should matter?  As long yer selecting carbons for holding weights above 30#, the draw weight don't mean diddly.  What counts is finding the right shaft that'll work for you and yer bow(s).  It's not rocket science, and never take the shaft manufacturer's recommendations as gospel.

.... [/b]

Ok, I see now.  Because it was never an issue with the typical everyday 45-58# bows.  I never had issues with FOC. Most carbons are .4" spined.  And just about any combo can get you over 15% FOC.

So in your case, I can see why its not an issue, or your having trouble understanding what I am saying.  But when you go to heavy setups like 66#, now its an issue.  Now, you get weak reactions. BH's and field point all hit to the right.  Basically flight sucks.  But in your case its hard to see because you don't shoot these heavy bows.

Bottom line is, if you did shoot heavy bows, you would not be able to dil dally around and just throw on heads as easy and go shooting.  I know you would never believe me, just ask just about any good bowmaker.

I never have to address BH POI and Field tip POI, separately as you do.  But from what you write, its clear why you would have too.  Clear to me.  Different strokes and all

And one more time, this post has nothing to do with what you answered.  I was strickly for those who face the issues of low FOC with a heavy bow like this.  If you don't, don't worry about it. [/b]

Interesting stuff.  In my youth, too far back, I don't think I had a bow less than 60# and 70# longbows were the norm.  I never had any issues with tuning arras for those holding weights.  Nor did any of us pay any attention to FOC.  Guess it just goes to show there sure are diff'rent strokes for diff'rent strokes and that's probably a good thing.  

I don't see how my response was off your topic target - you have a problem tuning yer 66# bow and yer concerned the FOC is too low.  The core of what I said was that carbons are tricky when it comes to spine and arrow flight, high FOC is a good thing, try pulling off the arra tail weight (which adds spine) and pile more weight on the front end, and don't confuse bare shafting field points and broadheads.  If none of that rap doesn't help ya out, sorry, I tried in good faith to help ya.  I hope you can solve yer arra dilemma.  As always, YMMV.

[bigcountry]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
I hope you can solve yer arra dilemma.  As always, YMMV. [/QB]

Thanks bud, hope you can get yours lined out too.

[bigcountry]

Originally posted by DesertDude:
Hey Big, I have the same problem. I went to a .300 spine carbon, front loaded to get the FOC I wanted and bare shaft tuned.........

Thanks a bunch DD.  I tried some 2219's and got great results with 200gr up front.  Also took your advise and tried the .340" spined and 250gr up front and getting awesome flight.  

Thanks for answering the question and helping me out.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by bigcountry:
 

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
I hope you can solve yer arra dilemma.  As always, YMMV. [/b]

Thanks bud, hope you can get yours lined out too.

Welp, I don't have any arra flight problems.   :D  

AD Trads fly just fine for heavy 600-675 grain arras.  

But my bread 'n' butter arra is still that Beman ICS Venture 500, 29" shaft, lo-profile 4" 4-fletch. 300 grains up front, 27% FOC, 540 grains outta the 55# Firefly.  A bud, who is a known Excellent shooter, shot that arra (with field or judo point, I forget) outta a few bows in the low to mid 60# range and she flew like on rails.  Life is good.   :D      

From yer last post, sounds like yer getting yer arra problem worked out, great!    

[Terry Green]

I don't understand why a guy would ask a question, and then proceed to tell someone that's trying to help that they don't know what they are talking about. My word, Rob's been shooting bows for decades, he aint just makin this stuff up.

I shoot heavy bows...and I can dilly dally around and shoot any ole head I want off my arrows...from 125 grains to 250.  I also know and hunt with many that shoot heavy bows that have do the same.


I dont' understand, or have never heard, that once you get above a certain bow weight you automaticaly have a certain bunch of issues to deal with....maybe if a person is over bowed or has form issues, but that could also happen with a 50#er.

Oh, it might be harder to find spine weights for 100# bows, but cerainlly not 60 to 70#ers.

8% FOC is too low IMO, as you don't have much front end steering....you don't have to have extreme either, but 15% would be better than 8 for sure.

[bigcountry]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
I don't understand why a guy would ask a question, and then proceed to tell someone that's trying to help that they don't know what they are talking about. My word, Rob's been shooting bows for decades, he aint just makin this stuff up.

I shoot heavy bows...and I can dilly dally around and shoot any ole head I want off my arrows...from 125 grains to 250.  I also know and hunt with many that shoot heavy bows that have do the same.


I dont' understand, or have never heard, that once you get above a certain bow weight you automaticaly have a certain bunch of issues to deal with....maybe if a person is over bowed or has form issues, but that could also happen with a 50#er.

Oh, it might be harder to find spine weights for 100# bows, but cerainlly not 60 to 70#ers.

8% FOC is too low IMO, as you don't have much front end steering....you don't have to have extreme either, but 15% would be better than 8 for sure.

Terry, you just answered the question that your friend never did.  8% is too low as I was getting great accuracy up to 20 yards but 30-35, I couldn't hit didly.  I never seen that before and thought it could be from low FOC. Noone bothered to actually read the question or my responses.  I tired it Rob's way, and got horrible flight. When I took off that backwieght, holy cow the arrow almost went sideways.  The spine was just too weak for my desired >20% FOC.  He never bothered to think that it was too weak. The 5575 spine was too light to handle that much wieght.  I knew it was too weak so wanted some opinions on other shafts to buy.

I am cheap as the next guy, and tried to make what I had on hand work.  So I was curious if anyone else had experience with LOW FOC.  I never did at this point either. Rob even admitted he never had that low FOC.  So he didn't know.  Next post, why keep harping on a dead horse?

As clearly put in in the post, I was wanting suggestions from people with this type of wieght of bow on arrows/tip combo's so I can get get my FOC up.  None of us on here Terry like to buy a bunch of arrows.  All Rob kept saying over and over was to take off the back wieght, take off the back wieght.  Thats fine and dandy.  It was tried, and flight was horrible.  Next step.  Let it go.

desertdude hit it on the head and was dead on correct.  Only him and justahunter bothered to actually read the question.  And I bought some 7595's, and am putting 280gr on the front, to get my desired 640gr arrow weight and awesome flight.  DD was correct.  Why Rob couldn't figure out that 0.4" spine was too light is beyond me.  I am not saying he doesn't have all this experience with his bow and his setup.  But I am not idiot either.  

As clearly stated in the post, I found what I was looking for, I thanked those that gave useful advise.  

What I didn't ask, and have said several times was "is bareshaft tuning good?", or how should I tune this?  I didn't ask those things.  Clearly wanted to know the effects of low FOC and a arrow combo to get my wieght up and FOC over 20 that is spined correctly for my bow.  Thats it.

What more does one want from a post?

I appoligize if I offended you Terry or Rob. I just don't understand how this post went down as it did.

[Terry Green]

Well at least you got it worked out.....that's the main thing.

[Rob DiStefano]

Yeah, couldn't be happier for you.

[Rob DiStefano]

ttt

[bigcountry]

Well, here's what I came up with.  

Got some 7595's trads from stickbow supplies here in MD, and stuck on some points and went out bareshafting.  

I put on 265gr up front and got awesome flight.  

They dive pretty quickly past 25 yards, but its great flight.  I don't see that huge wiggle from the Low FOC shooting.

I am surprised I needed this much spine for this bow.  

This black widow string is the smallest diameter string I have ever seen.  I bet if I throw a 18 strand 8125 on it, I bet I would be be overspined.  Also I am surprised this 2004 LX is not cut to center.  I also bet this has alot to do with it.

Thanks for alls advise.  And want to publicly appoligize to Rob for coming off so brash and rude.  I might have come off as a jerk, but I got a newborn boy who likes to party all night screaming and throwing his hands in the air.  I feel like I am in a daze mostly for the last 2 weeks.

This is your guys BBQ and its good.

[Rob DiStefano]

Hey Mark, I can sure relate to screamin' babies, only now they're my grandkids!  :D   Thanx fer coming back and sharing yer arra sorting out results.  Glad it all worked out for ya and ya took the time to do the experimenting and testing.