Another newb question - grouping

[Brandi]

So I've improved my group sizes considerably, it just took more time than I had allowed myself.  I was just putting too much pressure on myself.  Now that I've improved my group sizes, I'm trying to improve my group location.  I'm consistently shooting a little high and a little left.  I already feel like I'm holding to the right a little more than I should but that's what it takes to get my arrows to the middle of the target.  Can I move my arrow rest to the right a little bit to adjust it or will that cause arrow flight problems from not being lined up perfectly as it is?

I've tried adjusting my grip but that seems to cause all kinds of accuracy issues.  I can just hold low and right but it feels really wrong when I'm shooting which bugs me and I can't concentrate. 

My arrows are flying well and nice and straight in the target so I'm guessing it's something I'm doing.

In case it's relevant:
My bow is a 45# Martin Saber takedown.  I'm shooting 28.5" carbon Gold Tip Hunter XT 500's with a 125 grain points. 

[Brandi]

I may have accidentally discovered my problem.  After posting the above question I went back out to continue shooting.  I immediately realized I was using the entire bow as a subconscious reference instead of the actual arrow.  Once I stopped doing that and only used the arrow, my groups and location improved. 

In also noticed that my back issues are affecting my shooting even more than I knew.  I had an MRI yesterday that stuck me in an extremely painful position for 30 minutes where I couldn't move and my shooting is definitely showing it today.

We'll see how this progresses.  Any additional advice is still welcome!

[McDave]

It looks like the arrow rest on the Martin Saber is fully adjustable, so I would rather see you adjust it to an optimal position for arrow flight rather than use it to move your POI.  That position would be where the center of the arrow is just outside the centerline of the bow.  If you have a pickup truck handy, the tailgate makes a good stand to adjust the centershot.  Prop the upper limb of the bow against the open tailgate with the lower limb tip on a pad or something on the ground.  Mount an arrow on the bow and stand behind it with one eye closed so that you can line up the string with the centerline of the bow. Notice where the tip of the arrow lies with respect to the string; if it isn’t just outside of the string, adjust the arrow rest until it is.

I’m not worried about your high misses, since you say they are consistent.  You’ll learn to control those with time, whether you aim instinctively or using a reference point, like the arrow tip.

Your left misses could be due to any number of form issues, or could be due to the spine of the arrow or the strike plate.  Since you are shooting off a rest, you probably don’t have much control over the strike plate, unless you decide to start using a cushion plunger.  If you want to stay strictly trad, you should probably figure out how to solve the problem without a cushion plunger.  You can try different arrow spines, or try changing the length of the arrows a little.  Normally, changing to a weaker spine or longer arrow length would be the most likely to move the POI to the right; however, sometimes the opposite works too.  Sometimes changing the brace height can effect POI as well.  I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t experiment with these things, realizing that your form might change and then you’ll have to start experimenting again.

My experience with my students and myself is that as form improves, the groups start moving to the right, although YMMV.  I assume you are a RH shooter?

Obviously, as you stated in your second post, you shouldn’t draw any conclusions until you feel okay. 

[Brandi]

I am right handed.  Since I've started using my arrow as an unconscious reference instead of the bow things have slowly started evening out.

  I'm dealing with some back issues right now and my accuracy has suffered a lot so I've decided not to shoot anymore for the next 4 or 5 days.  I tried today but I think I just made my issues worse so it's time for a break.  I need to find some 40# limbs but looks like they are specific to Martin and new limbs from them cost more than the entire bow cost so that's not going to happen.  We'll see how things go after I hopefully heal up a bit.

Thank you for the advice.  I definitely need to work on my form.

[Todd Cook]

When I  start having arrows go left or high left, I'm overdrawing the bow and the arrow is to the right of my eye. If it's under my right eye it will usually go down the middle.

[mahantango]

You just discovered what Jim Ploen preaches. Aim the arrow, not the bow. Check out his videos on YouTube.

[Part Time Archer]

Keep the arrow angle in your peripheral and keep your bow arm steady after release.

[Sojurn]

If you're hitting left more often later in the shooting session, I would suspect that you are getting fatigued. This could be causing you to not hit your anchor or not expand through the shot, also if your release is more of a dead one it's easier to collapse, this essentially makes the arrow shoot stiff and miss left.