Spine selection and Satori tuning Questions

[Camo6]

Hi all,

Currently getting to know a new bow and have a couple of questions in regards to spine selection and tuning issues.
I'm the proud new owner of a 21" Satori with 50# long limbs, shooting off a springy rest w/ Accutune. I have a 29.5" draw and tend towards gap shooting using the tip of the arrow as reference. For this reason I like to leave my arrows long or at full length to reduce gaps. I like to build heavy arrows with high foc as I plan to hunt dense country for Sambar deer and shot distances will likely be short. I have the limbs cranked down and even tiller and have measured my draw weight to be just over 55#.

I started off with some 400 GT trads I had from another setup but found these needed to be shortened too much and I couldn't stack weight up front.
I then tuned some 340s to the bow but found that even at 31.5" they were still showing weak and needed point weight reduced to about 200gn (100gn insert and 100gn tip).
Yesterday I picked up half a dozen GT Nugent's in 300 spine to have a play. I've left them at 32" with 100gn inserts and playing about with tip weight to see what works. What I've noticed is they still seem to fly weak when bareshafting with 150 to 175 tips (so over 250gn of weight up front). I haven't papertuned yet but I can physically see the arrow tailing right in flight (I'm a lefty) with a bareshaft. I've only just start with a bareshaft and a fletched and found the bareshaft is landing more left than the fletched (once again, I'm a lefty).

Everything I seem to read indicates that most would shoot 400s, maybe 340s, for my poundage although their lengths are usually a lot shorter. Does anyone else have similar specs and need such a stiff spine? The GT charts indicate I'm in the right zone although their charts don't accomodate for such high foc. I'm pretty confident I'm in the right spine range but would love more experienced advice.

The other factor could just be my ability. I've been shooting trad for about 12 months and I know my form is not the most consistent but I know when I loose a good shot. Can too stiff an arrow bounce of the rest/sideplate and fly weak? I've adjusted as close to centreshot as I can but unfortunately the head of the accutune plunger is too wide to retract into the riser so the width of it's head plus the spring coils limits centreshot. Has anyone had their riser countersunk to accomodate an accutune or Pat Norris microtune?

Anyway, sorry for all the questions but keen to hear anyone's opinion on my setup/issues. FWIW I am shooting 4x AAE Max Stealth vanes off the rest.

[Alexander Traditional]

Since you have center shot adjustment you can play with tuning,but I sure wouldn't think you would need 340. You should be able to get 400 to work but I've also had a easy time tuning 500 with a 55 pound bow.

[Camo6]

At full length and over 250gn up front? I don't think I have full center shot adjustment due to the depth of the accutune and springy. Looking down the string my arrow is still pulling away from the center.

[Alexander Traditional]

Maybe,I know I've bought some 340 and they are working out of 60 and 65 pound bows. 400 is pretty stiff if you start to cut them down. I would think 400 full length as a starting point should work good.

[Orion]

If you don't have a clean release, i.e., a tendency to pluck a little, it will send the arrow to the right, for a left hand shooter.  A too stiff arrow bouncing off the side plate will also go to the right. Of course, for a lefty, the arrow impacting to the right indicates a too stiff arrow.  But you already know that.  It is where the arrow impacts though, not its orientation in flight, that is the primary indicator of its stiffness, so don't put too much stock in a tailing in-flight shaft appearance.  Fletching does have a stiffening effect, if for no other reason than it adds weight to the rear of the arrow.

Given you want to use full length arrows, if your 400 arrows are currently impacting right, you should be able to move them back to center by moving the adjustable arrow rest out.  I think that should work, but if doesn't, you may need to go to 340s, but definitely don't need to go any stiffer than that.   

[Sojurn]

I shoot a 19 inch satori with long uuhka limbs,  pulling about 50 pounds at 29 3/4 inches. 
  I'm shooting full length black eagle instinct 400s with 225 up front. These arrows are 35 inches long from nock to the base of the point.
  I say all of that to say this, our bows are similar enough that I know a 300 would never fly right. 
  You're either bouncing of the shelf (likely) or your release is contributing to a weak reading in the bare shaft (also likey).
  I'd recomend more fletching,  and just shoot.  Don't worry about tuning just yet.

[Camo6]

Yeah, I had another play with them yesterday and judging by the wear on the side of the spring I'd say they're definitely bouncing off pretty hard. I might put these aside for now and trial them with some stupid heavy points down the track.
I've got some long 340s that are leaving nice holes in paper but will have a play with some 400s I have for another bow.
I've just been wanting to see how small I can get my gaps but think I've found the limits.
Cheers all for the advice

[Onski316]

Play with your release. Try different styles, hooks, etc. I had that same problem with mine. Weird bareshaft tuning results. Usually comes into play when I get lazy on my hook and release. Plucking definitely shows a weak spine (I'm right hand and arrows will go to the right of my aim point). I really, really have to be focused on my form to get bareshafts to tune. I've been shooting single strings now for about a year and a half so I've been down this road a few times. Now when I have bareshafts go wonky, I focus on my form before I grab a different arrow to try.

[Camo6]

Great advice. I definitely need to work on a repeatable shot process the weak flight is more than likely my release. I have a set off arrows that I know fly true but I think I just like an excuse to tinker with a new arrow build, which I find as much fun, if not more, as shooting them. I guess I've watched so many yt videos on extreme foc builds that I had to give it a go.