Bow #6 on the tiller tree

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

This is bow #6. Black limba and wenge with wenge I Beam. 60" and came in at 36#. I was hoping for  35 to 40. I like this wedge design and may use this a the benchmark and try to hit 45.

No tillering wok one in these pics. Riser is not quite level. It cam out pretty dead nuts after I level the riser. Should have took more pics, but I am done for the day!

[Mad Max]

You have been busy building bows, how long is that wedge?
How did you make that wedge?

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

The wedge is 10". I took a board 1.5" thick and machined a reverse wedge into it. Then used my table saw and put my wedge material in the wedge slot of the board, set my fence to the width of the board and cut it out. Feathered it by hand, but did not take much. Had to play with my table saw a little to get a square cut.
May start machining them, but my mill is at another location than my shop. I need to move it, but setting up a mill after moving one is a day's work!

[Crooked Stic]

My latest recurve uses a wedge about .250_.000 in 11 in. They are pretty easy to make on the profile sander with a jig. The thin wedge can be shortened or lengthened depending on how much working limb you want and still bend some. Kinda like built in power lam. 

[Kirkll]

Looking good! 


Do you have a decent drum sander yet Hillbilly? 

I’ve got a table saw jig I use for cutting wedges that works pretty slick I could share some photos or video of in use if you like. Let me know. I’ll be setting up to take some more shop video in the near future.

 I had a cool little camera that was easy to use for years, and she finally bit the sand. I tried using my go pro in the shop and don’t really like it with the tiny screen. It’s great for action stuff, but not ideal for tripod filming. I think I might pull out my high speed digital camera next time , but hate having that nice camera in a dusty shop environment.

I’ll bet they have tripod mounts for these fancy phones. I take most my shop photos with an iPhone. They take great pictures and video. I might look into that….

Kirk

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

Would love to see any jigs. I have a Jet 22-44 drum sander that I just leveled to 3 thou in the 22 inch span. The jig I made on my table saw works, but I am sure it could be refined.

I need to take the time and precision mill a sled out of aluminum forms drum sander.

Somebody needs to make these like the lam sleds Kenny M makes!

[kennym]

Gimme some specs and we can do it!

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

Kenny M Let's discuss this! This wedge is 350 thou that tapers to nothing in 10 inches.

I am thinking 325 at 10 inches with the capability to go to 12 ". So that would be .390 at 12 inches tapering to zero?

Or would thinner, say 300 thou at 10" and 360 at 12 be better?

[Kirkll]

Would love to see any jigs. I have a Jet 22-44 drum sander that I just leveled to 3 thou in the 22 inch span. The jig I made on my table saw works, but I am sure it could be refined.

I need to take the time and precision mill a sled out of aluminum forms drum sander.

Somebody needs to make these like the lam sleds Kenny M makes!

Years ago i had a machine shop precision mill a bunch of aluminum sleds. I think i had about 40 of them done at one time. I got a bunch of guys together that wanted them and got a discount on volume. it was still very expensive. I know Crooked stick has some, and maybe even Kenny got in on that... I don't remember.

I have milled taper sleds for guys now and then over the years from Bamboo and Iron wood, but gave it up.  I think you could get some nice sleds milled from Corian that is cheaper than aluminum now, and they would be bullet proof. Aluminum is sky high! I used corian for precision router straight edges in the past and its excellent.

food for thought..

https://www.boatoutfitters.com/glacier-white-corian?options=cart

[kennym]

Kenny M Let's discuss this! This wedge is 350 thou that tapers to nothing in 10 inches.

I am thinking 325 at 10 inches with the capability to go to 12 ". So that would be .390 at 12 inches tapering to zero?

Or would thinner, say 300 thou at 10" and 360 at 12 be better?

I use .300 to 0 in 8" in my TD   so I'd say >390 at 12" would be fine.

Kirk has done a lot of different wedge lengths so maybe he can give us an idea or two...

[Kirkll]

I’m rather fond of long lean straight taper wedges myself. I mill them at 12” lengths from about .0300 to nothing or .025 taper rate. I use these on all my TD limb designs including ILF limbs, and add a G-10 toggle plate to the bottom of the limb butt on those. 

These go into the forms full length and have different stop locations for the wedge butt, and marks on the form where they will be trimmed off. The finish wedge lengths vary from 10.5” to 11.5” determining the medium or long limb length, with the tip notch location being the same on both sizes. This keeps your limb dynamics  pretty close to the same with two different limb lengths on the same riser. I also have movable stops in some of my forms to alter the limb length and give me the option of pushing the fades out another inch for guys with a shorter draw length.

The only down side I have experienced with the long lean wedges is that using different type wedge material  with less tensile strength can cause a bit of flex on the limb pad itself. A good example would be using western curly maple vs rock hard eastern maple.  While this really doesn’t have any effect on the bows performance, it raises eyebrows seeing a bit of light between the limb and riser as it flexes. I’ve also used a pair of 12” power lams creating a laminated wedge with a carbon core to stiffen things up. Worked great, but it’s not very cost or labor effective.

I used to try and match the wedge material to the riser much more than I do now for aesthetic reasons. But I much prefer using a good stiff material in my wedges over matching wood species.

On one piece bows I use power lams which are basically fade extenders that create the same long lean wedge effect and pushes the working portion out further.

Hope this helps….   Kirk

[kennym]

""The only down side I have experienced with the long lean wedges is that using different type wedge material  with less tensile strength can cause a bit of flex on the limb pad itself. A good example would be using western curly maple vs rock hard eastern maple.  While this really doesn’t have any effect on the bows performance, it raises eyebrows seeing a bit of light between the limb and riser as it flexes.""

Hey , if that wedge is flexing on the riser it may give a couple FPS !

Just kiddin...  maybe 

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

Not sure if it helps, but I add a 1/8" phenolic pad to the bottom of each limb. I surface this with my mill to true up each limb. I will try to pay attention to what I use as wedges since it looks like I will be going the thinner 300 -350 thou route.

Thanks for the tip!

[Kirkll]

I’m curious of your milling procedure on a limb butt overlay. I’m very particular on getting my limb butts and the full length of the limbs  dead square on the edge sander  before I even do the drilling or limb profile…. I’m having a tough time picturing milling phenolic overlays on a limb butt. Could you explain that a bit?

I always mill my limb pads on the riser dead square on the mill prior to doing limb pad overlays, then hand sand with a sanding block prior to drilling and doing pins and inserts.    Kirk   

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

What fee limbs I have done, I have found that no matter how I clamp the pads to the bottom of the limb butt, the glue or clamp pressure will leave it not dead level . You can see this when you block sand them. Even with a block or a belt sander , how do you keep them square?

Right or wrong, here is what I do and it seems to work pretty  well.

After gluing up and taking my limbs out of the form, I will remove all excess with my belt sander. Then I add my phenolic to the bottom of the limb butts. After that sets up, I sand the limbs to width on the belt sander.

I lay both limbs side by side on a flat surface and clamp the butts down. If my layup was good, the tips will be perfectly side by side and even. If not I try to measure as best I can , how much the pad needs to be cut to get them even.

Then they go in my mill supported by parallel bars. I have a digital angle gage and get them level on both planes. Tedious...each limb is marked and I always measure and work from the fixed side of the machinist vise. Then I use a large carbide end mill, surface the limb, and drill the limb bolt hole and pin pocket before the limb ever leaves the vice.

Next limb get the same treatment but pointing the other direction and this is when one becomes the top and bottom.

Then I check them clamped side by side again, if good, they get bolted to riser, then centerline is marked using my laser level on a large table.
The laser is visible the entire length of the bow and riser.
Then I cut the limb profile.

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

Since I don't trust the glued on pad to be level, I use the straight portion of the limb immediately after the limb pad.

Neat thing about my laser is it is 3/4" from the surface it sets on. So if I always work from same side of riser and limbs, I have centerline established the length of the bow

Not a perfect system,  but it is working for my longbow limbs.

[Kirkll]

I've played with laser alignment a bit myself and just couldn't make it work for me. Or should i say i didn't feel comfortable with my set up.

I'd love to see a photo of your set up doing this. I have a couple different lasers, but just haven't figured out a good system to use them. If that laser isn't shot exactly 90 degrees from the face of the limbs and riser it gives a false reading on  RC limb limbs.     Kirk

[Appalachian Hillbilly]

Next set I do, I will get pics