Tiller measurement's and limb balance

[Buggs]

Thats true Roy, it's just a little more complicated getting there.

[Mad Max]

 

[Roy from Pa]

Done it many times Buggs:)

[Bowjunkie]

All of my personal bows are asymmetrical. I prefer how they balance in the hand to carry, and how they balance during the draw.

It's actually easier to dynamiclally balance their limb strengths during the draw than it is to balance a symmetrical bow because the asymmetrical bow's critical factors regarding dynamic balance are generally more closely aligned to begin with... bow center/static balance point, and the fulcrums under our hands. Their closer proximity to one another means less movement of the dynamic/sliding fulcrum under the bow hand as the draw transpires... which makes it easier to navigate during tillering(if tillering for dynamic balance) and feels better in the finished bow.

If I was making a bow for someone who was string walking or had a low fixed crawl I'd reassess bow center location and maybe then a symmetrical design would get those things better aligned, for them. Depends.

[Buggs]

All of my personal bows are asymmetrical. I prefer how they balance in the hand to carry, and how they balance during the draw.

It's actually easier to dynamiclally balance their limb strengths during the draw than it is to balance a symmetrical bow because the asymmetrical bow's critical factors regarding dynamic balance are generally more closely aligned to begin with... bow center/static balance point, and the fulcrums under our hands. Their closer proximity to one another means less movement of the dynamic/sliding fulcrum under the bow hand as the draw transpires... which makes it easier to navigate during tillering(if tillering for dynamic balance) and feels better in the finished bow.

If I was making a bow for someone who was string walking or had a low fixed crawl I'd reassess bow center location and maybe then a symmetrical design would get those things better aligned, for them. Depends.

Cant argue with that. But for someone who is learning to build laminated bows, the process of determining the layout and final profile for a bow with multiple points of asymmetry and then timing the limbs, would be more complicated than one with identical limbs, profiled from a center point.

[mmattockx]

All of my personal bows are asymmetrical. I prefer how they balance in the hand to carry, and how they balance during the draw.

Can you quantify how much asymmetry you use? Longer top limb? Asymmetrical riser as well?


Thanks,
Mark

[Buggs]

I cant speak for BJ, but I make my straight end longbows with 2" longer upper limb and 1" shorter lower fadeout.

[Roy from Pa]

Buggs, do you actually shorten one limb or are you saying by sliding the arrow shelf up more gives you the asymmetrical bow?

[Buggs]

Actually a little of both. I tweak the stack slightly and shift the center point down. Also have simply moved the asymmetrical riser down an inch to achieve the same effect with a symmetrical layup.Both end up with a shorter working lower limb, but the shelf is closer to actual center. I honestly can't say if it really makes limb timing more difficult because its been so long since I have laminated a bow with a different technique.

[Roy from Pa]

but the shelf is closer to actual center

Yes that is what bowjunkie and I like to achieve.

[Bowjunkie]

My riser is symmetrical. Center of handle/riser is at the apex of deflex. Top limb is usually longer by 1 1/2" to 1 3/4". So top limb is designated coming off the form... glass bows and bamboo backed. Same same.

[Buggs]

You guys are old school  

Thats what I learned in the pre-internet days, when unless you had a mentor, you were at the mercy of ancient  library books and dusty old used book stores for any coveted bow building info. All the old books I collected and learned from, shorty bottom bows were the norm.

[Roy from Pa]

All my bows have had a shorter lower limb.

[Kirkll]

All of my personal bows are asymmetrical. I prefer how they balance in the hand to carry, and how they balance during the draw.

It's actually easier to dynamiclally balance their limb strengths during the draw than it is to balance a symmetrical bow because the asymmetrical bow's critical factors regarding dynamic balance are generally more closely aligned to begin with... bow center/static balance point, and the fulcrums under our hands. Their closer proximity to one another means less movement of the dynamic/sliding fulcrum under the bow hand as the draw transpires... which makes it easier to navigate during tillering(if tillering for dynamic balance) and feels better in the finished bow.

If I was making a bow for someone who was string walking or had a low fixed crawl I'd reassess bow center location and maybe then a symmetrical design would get those things better aligned, for them. Depends.

Cant argue with that. But for someone who is learning to build laminated bows, the process of determining the layout and final profile for a bow with multiple points of asymmetry and then timing the limbs, would be more complicated than one with identical limbs, profiled from a center point.

This is dead on Buggs .... I know some damn good bowyers that obsessed with Asymmetrical vs symmetrical balancing and i'm sorry.... but i'm not seeing the the extra time and effort paying any dividends at all myself.    just my opinion...  Kirk