Non anchor / inconsistant anchor

[Joefio6279]

Hello ive been shooting on and off for about 4 years  i cant seem to keep basball size groups at 20 all the time. Id say most of my shots are kill shots. But not as acurate as i want to be. All of my shots on deer have been perfect or complete misses. Im not sure if i should focus on solid anchor or just forget it do what i do and just shoot. I feel i dont make it to the corner of my mouth unless im forced to hold anchor in hunting situations or i aim off target then focus on target. Any advise would br great thank you.

[Joefio6279]

Here are some pics at full draw

[McDave]

Hello ive been shooting on and off for about 4 years  i cant seem to keep basball size groups at 20 all the time. Id say most of my shots are kill shots. But not as acurate as i want to be. All of my shots on deer have been perfect or complete misses. Im not sure if i should focus on solid anchor or just forget it do what i do and just shoot. I feel i dont make it to the corner of my mouth unless im forced to hold anchor in hunting situations or i aim off target then focus on target. Any advise would br great thank you.

Hi Joe, welcome to TradGang.

Not too many people can consistently get baseball sized groups at 20 yards.  However, if you can consistently hit within the kill zone at 20 yards, say a 6” circle, then you are plenty accurate to hunt at that distance.

The only obvious problem I can see from the photos is that you are gripping the bow too firmly.  Try gripping the bow with only your thumb and forefinger, with the pressure point on the fatty part of your hand just below your thumb that is on the thumb side of your lifeline (which I believe would be the left side of the lifeline for you since you are a LH shooter).  Gripped this way, your bow hand should angle away from the bow handle at about 45*.  Your other fingers can either barely touch the back of the bow handle with your fingertips, or just stay out of the way.  I like to fold my little finger under so it is between the bow handle and my hand, to remind me to keep the 45* angle, but this is just a personal preference.

Perhaps a bigger problem is that you seem to be describing incipient target panic.  This rarely gets better with time, and can turn out to be a big problem when it gets out of control.  You always always always should be in control of the bow so you don't shoot the arrow until you are ready to shoot it, with whatever anchor you decide in advance of the shot, whether it's on your face or waving around in the air.  Obviously, I would prefer that you anchor on your face and aim at the target you want to hit rather than off to the side somewhere, but as long as you're doing what you decided to do before the shot, at least it isn't target panic.  If you can't control the bow to do what you want it to do, all the time, then I recommend that you nip it in the bud and enroll in some target panic training, like Joel Turner's Shot IQ course.

[Joefio6279]

Thanks for the advice i didnt even notice my grip till now. It helps not everybody can keeo them in a basball at 20. I am right handed the video was a selfi video so it looks like im lefty. I dont have trouble getting off the string and i can hold. I just feel like my shot suffers when i try to really feel my anchor. The pics are snap shots from a video and they are all different shots.

[Terry Green]

The BEST thing you can do is get on the bale and incorporate a Double Anchor....

If that doesn't fix it, yep, Joel

I draw the bow and my thumb knuckle grazes the corner of my mouth and continues along my jaw, as my middle finger comes in contact with the corner of my mouth I continue my draw till my thumb knuckle slides behind my jaw under my ear.  Yes, the middle finger drags the corner of my mouth a bit.

The 2nd anchor for me insures that I get the proper alignment and back tension.

If you just anchor in the corner of the mouth, your elbow can be pointing anywhere....by sliding my thumb base knuckle behind my jaw under my ear....I'm there...all aligned with proper back tension. 

I worked on this on the bale and grooved it in, I do not have to think about it at all, its just the way I shoot now as the arrow don't go till that 2nd anchor is obtained.  Its ingrained into my subconscious and really helps keep windage issues at bay.

So, spend some time on the bale for a couple of weeks and ingrain that double anchor.  Get 6 feet away and don't aim, just concentrate on you double anchor.

 http://tradgang.com/videos/tg/m27.wmv

Broadside profile with wife"s commentary   2.0 MEG  wmv file

[charles m]

You are talking about target panic and not snap shooting. You need to look up target panic. 

[Traditional-Archer]

Joe, this is very good question asked by so many archers. I’m working with my son on his form and technique. The most important thing I’m trying to tech him is not to create bad form so later you will not be fixing those bad form problems. That sounds like what you are trying to do, fix these problems now so your not correcting them later on. Good for you, that is going to payoff big time. So what I try to do and I’m not sure if I learned this from my uncle Charlie the man that introduced me to traditional archery 44 years ago, for me that’s a hard one trying to think that far back lol
To each their own but I was taught to anchor on my eye tooth, reason being, your jaw moves and your eye tooth does not. I remember practicing just anchoring to my eye tooth for hours a day and weeks on end. If you choose to try this concentrate only on this form and do not worry about shot placement just your anchoring so, you want to be close to the target.
The second anchoring point is really good as well but always bring your forefinger to your eye tooth every time. The others part of your question is consistency and I find that, after you have good form and find an arrow flying off every once in awhile is because you forget to follow through with the shot. A dropped bow arm will almost always create this problem. Video yourself as you have and look for this happening, it’s so small it might be hard to pickup at first. Also watch and see if you are bringing your head to your hand or drawing straight back to your anchor.
Practice the same anchor point every time. Hopefully this will help a little and you find the answer you are looking for. I’ve learned so much from TradGang members it’s made my traditional life so much more wealthy. Good luck in your journey

[Terry Green]

Sorry, somehow I missed the pics.  I have no idea about your grip, but you are not properly aligned.  Your drawing elbow tells the tale, and you definitely need to incorporate a double anchor as that will help get you in line and full extension.

Read the clock thread at the top. 

[PrimitivePete]

Great advice but I would recommend not focus on the anchor to your face as the primary anchor point but anchoring your shoulder first

[JohnnyBa]

I know I am the least of all to give shooting advice, but as many that will respond here will have the answer, the real question is to what? You shoot baseball size groups at 20, you should with 4 years experience.  Follow Terry Greens advice and really connect with a repeatable anchor and solid bow arm. Shoot focused, when your release is clean, I can tell you, you feel the shot and you just know it’s going where you are looking(with FOCUS). Obtain a relaxed grip, I hold my thumb and forefinger loose at draw and let them form the “ok” sign as your thump knuckle drag across your cheek to let that finger hit and drag your lip back a tad, hold that anchor until you know you are there and release. Stand close and let that settle into a form you repeat and I swear, the enjoyment level of your shooting will improved daily.

[Lungman1]

Terry, I haven’t got the DVD yet and the answer is probably there. But what do you mean by “the draw arm tells the tale”? I know the draw hand is supposed to be relaxed without tension in either the hand or forearm, the drawing of the bow is supposed to be with the rhomboid muscle group. And eventually the point of the elbow should be in a straight line with the arrow and your pressure points and shoulders 90 degrees to the target, I THINK. Now having said that I think if I understood your clock correctly the drawing elbow should be somewhere between 9-10 on the clock. But here may be my question…..when you draw, is there a specific relationship to anything or specific position that the drawing elbow needs to be in? And if so does that help achieve the “J” shape of a correct draw?
I hope this makes sense.

[Terry Green]

Give me a bit.... and I'll answer,.... going to the post office now with several DVDs, yours include and a couple of other goodies.

[Lungman1]

Thanks Terry!! I appreciate your time and help!

[Terry Green]

 “the draw arm tells the tale”

That is on the form clock thread stickied at the top.....

Overhead pics showing the elbow is not at 6 o'clock.

You want both power points, wrist and elbow going in exactly opposite directions, wrist directly at the  target, the elbow directly away and lined up directly inline/behind the wrist.

" I think if I understood your clock correctly the drawing elbow should be somewhere between 9-10 on the clock."

That means in height, parrelel to the bow arm, or no higher that 10 o'clock.

"But here may be my question…..when you draw, is there a specific relationship to anything or specific position that the drawing elbow needs to be in?"

I'm not real sure of that question. Try and rephrase that for me please....

In the meantime, this my answer that question....

I'm going to post a rear video of me, its old and may not play.  It does on my computer but it takes a minute to download, if not, I'm going to have Rob convert it to another format.  So let me know if this doesn't play for you.  Give it a few seconds do download.

View From Rear

[Lungman1]

Terry thank you for the answer.  I see your point in not being sure about my question.  So, I will attempt to rephrase. As I draw the bow if you were looking at me from a position where you were looking directly at the target I am shooting, as my draw arm begins the draw before we even get to "behind the string" or "elbow height (parallel to the ground) at 9 to 10 o'clock at full draw, where does the draw elbow need to BEGIN at? Is there a relationship to the draw wrist or some parallel that the draw elbow needs to be above etc.?  What I mean is there a beginning position to start so it is easier to keep tension out of the draw hand and get proper "behind the string" extension?

And BTW I cannot see the video.  I will check when I get home on my personal computer, but I doubt it too.

Thank you again. And I hope I made sense and don't sound like a complete idiot.

[Terry Green]

Rob is converting the vids.... at his convenience... I have several... even a couple of my daughter when she was 8 I'll have him convert later...

Also, the answer might be on the DVD when you see it.

When I prepare to shoot, I grip the bow and string just as natural as a short stop, or line backer getting into position to execute.  Same as when I played tennis in high school and college.  The racket is held in a position to execute. It's the same with the bow, you grip both in a way that feels natural.

This 'placement' is the same no matter my position or cant, its all the same.  The DVD is going to be an eye opener..... See the post I made on the Powwow about 9 year old Jet being on fire....

In the meantime.... this clip is newer, so let me know if it will play.....

Over the Pond......