Am I long bow challenged?

[Predator1]

I have been shooting traditional for about 4 years now. I started out with a 55lb Damon Howatt Hunter at 55lb. I know, thats two heavy but thats what I started with. I love this bow as it is extremely smooth and points well. I think the bow is so smooth due to the beefy maple riser.
 
    Lately, I have had the desire for a long bow. I have shot a few bows lately including 2 Black Widows,a shrew, A Bob Lee,a Martin Savannah and several customs. And honestly, the Savanah is in my opinion the smoothest bow I have shot but not as smooth as my Howatt recurve. I love the looks of a long bow and have just really tried to find something I like but I just keep coming up short. It just seems that all the long bows I've tried have so much hand shock. Am I expecting too much compared to a recurve?

[Kyodai]

I too started with a Martin recurve a long time ago, and have recently switched to a longbow.

  I love the high wrist grip of the recurves, but it is taking a little time to adjust to the low-wrist grip common in most longbows.  Handshock while shooting a longbow, barring any design flaws, is usually a result of either gripping the bow either too tightly or incorrect hand placement.

  Not to say that you don't already know that, but the only time longbows have shaken my fillings loose is when I forget to "heel" the grip or hang onto it too tight.

  My experience with them is pretty shock free as long as I do my part.

[Deadbolt]

I have only shot recurves until last week and I to love high wrist profile and enjoy a very heavy bow which equals a great shootin bow for me.

Last week I got a bob lee stick and was worried but haven't had any problems shooting it.  The bob lee has a medium grip where I had to rotate my hand a bit but within 10 shots I was on.

As for shock yes there is less mass but I don't feel the shock b/c of the design.  I think the difference between the two bows is oranges and apples...can't expect them to feel the same.

What don't ya like about em though smoothness?  What were the stats of the bows you shot?

[Dick in Seattle]

Predator....    I took to shooting Hill longbows kind of on the basis that if I could learn to shoot these right, I'd be able to shoot anything else.  Seems to have worked.   I started shooting recurves last winter with no trouble.  I've read threads from lots of guys who have had trouble going from recurves to longbows, not so many the other way.   the shooting style is definitely different.   With lots less weight, you do have to have more control over the bow.

The longbows you mention are closer to what I'd call a hybrid than the real Hill style longbow, but still need some heel control.   We have a section on grip on the Howard Hill Longbowmen's web site.   Though this style of bow isn't exactly what you're shooting, it may help some:

 http://www.howardhilllongbowmen.com/hillgrip/hillgrip.html

As I get older and more cantankerous, I find myself trying to boil everything down to simplify and return to basics.  After owning/ shooting so many bows, I've kind of arrived at what I think of as a few kernals of wisdom.   If you're gonna shoot a longbow, shoot a Hill.  If you're gonna shoot a recurve, shoot an old Bear... preferably a Kodiak Hunter or a Super Kodiak.  Everything else is just steps along the road to these truths...  fun to try, pretty and may perform OK, but kind of like a Cadillac Escalade... might be fun, but too dang big to be a car and too small a bed to be a truck.  Neither fish nor foul but a marvel of marketing....  I don't suppose this will keep me from trying every new thing that catches my eye, but I do keep coming back to this point.   Sorry... I digress.  It's early here and I haven't had my coffee yet...

I hope the page on grips helps you, Predator...  and I would agree, among the hybrid style RD bows, the Savannah is a goodie.

Dick in Seattle

[Jim Wright]

If you are still in the market, try to find access to a Dan Toelke "whip" (R.D. longbow). After 4 of them I am more convinced than ever  that no one offers a better custom longbow. As to handshock there is none as in zero & that is with 9 gr. per lb. through 12 1/2 gr. per lb. arrows & low to high brace heights! In addition they are dead quiet, beautifully mannered & made, very reasonably priced and on top of all this, people don't come easier to deal with than Dan! Check out  www.montanabows.com  or simply google "Dan Toelke" & find out what other people say about him.

[Predator1]

Thanks Dick for the grip thread. Kind of sheds some light.

And Jim, Wow! Those are some beautiful bows.

[James Wrenn]

Often we pick up a bow and shoot a few shots and feel handshock or vibrations.Most times it is because the bow is not tuned to the way you shoot.Getting a bow well tuned for you makes a lot of that disapear.Also after shooting a while you can get use to anything.Many Hill shooters feel no handshock when they shoot.Party because they have learned the best way to shoot the bow,have the bow tuned for the way they shoot but mostly because they get use to it and don't think about it anymore.You will feel more recoil with a light mass weight bow than a heavy one but handshock is a result of timing and tuneing not what the bow limbs look like.jmho

[52 bow]

I shoot my longbows with the same high wrist grip as my recurves and with a loose hold never have felt any shock.I am more consistent with a longbow, maybe cause of its length and my 30" draw?

[buckeye_hunter]

Predator,

I too find my Timberhawk recurve to be smoother than any of the longbows I have tried.

The list of longbow/hybrids that I have tried includes; Striker Slapstick, Shrew, Bob Lee, Martin Savannah, Hummingbird, a classic D shape selfbow, Roy Hall, Caribow, MOAB, Morrison and many others I can't remember. These are all excellent bows and made by great bowyers.  I do, however, feel that the longbows have more handshock and I am less accurate with them.

The longbow that felt the best was the shrew, but I would still stay with a recurve.

For me now, I personally prefer the following recurves over longbows for lack of handshock and consistent shooting; Timberhawk, Assenheimer, Rose Oak and a Bear K-mag. I like all of those with a medium or high grip.

I personally, this is just my opinion, don't think you will find any longbow that is as smooth and free of handshock as your recurve.

Just my opinion,
Charlie

[Winterhawk1960]

Predator1,

I have had the opportunity to shoot quite a few longbows manufactured by some top name bowyers. The two that have the least noticable handshock for me....have been a Crow Creek Blackfeather longbow, and a Mike Treadway longbow. If you ever get the opportunity to shoot either of these, shoot a round or two. I know that a lot depends on how the grip of the bow fits in our hands....but these were the best for me.

Winterhawk1960

[pdk25]

I shoot a 62" RER vortex that is very smooth.  It is a hybrid type grip and I have never noticed any handshock.  I love this bow and shoot it better than my recurves, although I have tried a couple of other types of longbows which I don't shoot quite as well as my recurves.  The vortex isn't heavily reflex-deflex like some hybrids, so doesn't shoot quite as fast as a recurve pound for pound.  I think that it more than makes up or this with how quiet and stable the bow is.  It is a little heavier in the riser because it is made of dymondwood and has a bow-bolt system.  If you get a chance you may want to check one out.

[TNstickn]

I bought a couple of inexpensive long bows to just see if I would like one over the various recurves I was shooting and the hand shock was so bad it made my elbows ache the next day. Went to some shoots and some guys with high quality bows let me shoot thiers and boy what a difference. Now after switching totally Im trying to build my own! Point is there is an oceans difference in all these bows, might look the same but you wont know until you get to shoot and see. Get to a shoot, bring up your shock story and I garuntee a proud longbow owner will stick his long bow out to you and see for yourself. Best of luck, dont give up. -Greg

[GingivitisKahn]

Heh - I went from a 55# DH Hunter to a longbow too.  My choice was a HH Halfbreed - I think Dick in Seattle is right on the money btw.

Anyway, I was getting bunches of hand shock at first, but having adjusted my grip a bit and having put quite a few arrows through it, I can honestly say I no longer notice any handshock at all with that bow.

[Brian Krebs]

I remember shooting a Bear 76er; I still have it but the limbs are twisted.. and it was a hand shocker. I figured it was the solid fiberglass limbs. I shot it in ...well 1976-  and not since.

 I am not so sure why it had hand shock anymore.  

I looked at 'Dick in Seattle''s link; (and thank you Dick for that !)  I did notice that the people that really grasp the bow -are the ones most likely to have an armguard. I have worn an armguard ONLY when hunting in cold weather; and with baggy armed jackets ( they used to make them with elastic straps and velcro to hold your jacket or parka out of the way).

 It seems like the more you grip the bow; the more you need the arm guard; and ... after 50 years of shooting bows; I know that if I am shooting correctly--- I do NOT need an armguard (again unless my arms are puffed up like the pillsbury dough boy).

 I went to Hamilton and shot some Hill bows; and not one gave me handshock; which was in itself a shock. I really thought the design of the bow would lead to handshock. Not so.

 I - through the generosity of one trang ganger I will call 'Mr Chuck' - who I am so looking forward to hunting with again.. a Treadway bow- that has a straight grip; and it is more poundage than I am used to.

 But - it shoots with NO handshock.

I started bowhunting in the 60's with a recurve; because I didn't like handshock. About 7 years ago I started using a longbow; and it was a bit of a struggle; as the risers and grips were different than what I was used to.
 
 But now; I am slapping pop cans at 30 yards and not feeling one bit of handshock.

 I really think that handshock has a lot to do with gripping the bow. I know for me the more the bow just rests against my palm and thumb- the better I shoot; the more consistant I shoot; and that handshock is not an issue.

 I believe though the the only way to tell is to shoot one of those bows that make you hurt to shoot; and if your grasping it tight; and need an armguard; then adjust your grip; and see what happens.

 If there is a fear of dropping the bow at the shot then employ a strap to keep the bow from falling.

 I think we need to know about this because some people that would love to shoot a trad bow have; and have suffered from handshock. If we can learn ~why~ we could help these people enjoy shooting a traditional bow.

 It is indeed something that is supposed to be fun- and NOT painful!

[String Cutter]

I've never found a longbow with handshock I couldn't fix. Had one one time that felt like a tuning fork when I first strung it and shot.Felt it all the way up to my collar bone..
 The key is to shot heavy arrows to begin with and start rising and lowering the brace. There will be a sweet spot in there somewhere for you... And don't listen to your friends.. "Mine has no handshock ...give it a try...." It might be braced right for him ...but rattle your teeth.
I honestly believe brace is 90% of all the troubles people have with longbows..5% arrow weight and the last 5% just getting use to the differant feel of the longbow.
I think if you truely would laydown the heavy recurve for just a year you would never pick it up again.... It will feel like carryin a brick around once you get use to the weight of the longbow...