Shoulder and Elbow shock

[BillJ]

I know the issue of longbow vs. recurve has been hashed over ad nauseum. Each has its advocates here.  I know also that the way each contributes to "hand shock" has been equally debated.  Having been solidly in the longbow camp for a while now, I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that properly gripping a longbow ensures it has no more handshock than anything else.  I'm not interested in igniting a debate about that, again. If gripped properly, I've proven to myself that my longbow is as smooth as silk on release.

HOWEVER, I'm getting old, and my joints are really starting to bark at me.  I find that on those occasions where I DON'T grip properly, or something goes wrong in my form, even for a single shot, I am painfully chastised by my longbow in my shoulder and elbow.  I can shoot beautifully for 10 shots, but it's that 1 where I let down on my form that beats me up.  And it beats me bad enough that I pay for quite a while thereafter.  It's affecting my accuracy, just  like recoil does on a gun - I find myself starting to flinch - fearing the spanking.

SO, my question is - would switching to a recurve minimize the repercussions of periodic lapses in form?  When your form slips with a recurve, does it spank you as badly as a longbow?

Just to reiterate - I'm not asking about when everything goes well, which has more shock.  I'm asking about when things go bad -your grip is wrong, you have a bad release - your form just plain goes south - will a recurve be kinder in THAT case?

BillJ

[carlr2s]

If I had those problems, I would go to a heavy mass weight bow like a PMA and shoot heavy arrows.

[BillJ]

Thanks for the input.  Heavy arrows do help. Lately I've been shooting mostly POC arrows, and they are not as heavy as the hickory I was shooting last year.  If I stick with the longbow, maybe I'll go back to the hickory.  However, my original question dealt with how to handle the occasional "bad form" shot - when I do something off-form which sends shock waves up my arm, through my elbow, and shoulder, and out the top of my head!  IF a recurve deals with those exceptions better, I may have to switch.  IF the same thing happens with recurves, then I'll stick with the longbow and look at things like heavy arrows, etc.

Any thoughts on the recurve question?

Thanks!
BillJ

[Crash]

I would say that a well designed recurve will be more fogiving of shock on a bad release than a longbow.  I currently don't own a recurve so I am not trying to sell you one.  :D

[TSP]

I don't think its really a longbow vs. recurve issue, but as Carlr2s mentioned above its more of a mass issue.  Most bows with a large/heavy riser are more likely to transfer less 'shock' than other bows with low-mass risers, other things equal.  Still, form makes a big difference in the effects of either.  Like you, I have a some chronic physical problems (shoulder related) and it sometimes hurts to shoot, especially if I shoot too long.  Yet, I can shoot my low-mass Hill longbows and not experience any more discomfort than when I shoot my Black Widow recurve of similar weight.  Form, and how you employ your muscles, and perhaps the amount of weight you are pulling, can define to a large degree how you feel later on.

[Pat B.]

I have the same problems.. Now I'm shooting an A&H ACS 66" long. I use the aluminum riser for the added mass. No shock at all with these bows.

[BillJ]

Interesting.  I guess the reason I thought of recurve vs. longbow, was because I shoot a Hill style bow (very low mass riser), and most recurves I've seen seem to have much greater riser mass.  

You've given me some things to think about.  Thanks!

[James Wrenn]

Well more mass as adding a bowquiver full of arrows will help but the problem is still there.Talk to a PT about good stretching exercises to help your arm and shoulder.A few minuites of these simple stretches with a rope and rubber bands will keep you shooting the bows you like best instead of what hurts less.jmho Been there.

[Pat B.]

I think James is correct.. All bows have some vibration and shock ------------. Perhaps the issue is, at what level does this shock cease to aggravate your problems. I've had some of the top end recurves, costing well over a grand, that bothered my shoulder and elbow. Yet my A&H bows don't bother me. Good luck resolving your shooting problems. If all else fails you can try switching to left hand --------.

[BillJ]

James - do you know of someplace online where I can find an exercise program such as you recommend?  Or where I can find the types of rubber bands used in these exercises?  I'd like to give that approach a try, as I really don't want to switch bows / bow types at this point.

Thanks!
BillJ

[James Wrenn]

Bill I avoided surgury by going the PT route.I do not know where to find the streches online but I have the 9 pages of print out my therapist setup for me.If you pm me with your address I will send them to you.They are geared toward archery related problems and will help you.They are so simple you would think it is a waste of time.Give them an honest try for a week a few minites each day and I think you will see a difference.I had got to the point I could not shoot a 25lb bow.After a couple of weeks things started working again and now that my strength is back I am back to shooting 50lbs without pain and could shoot heavier if I ever needed to.Beat the hech out of a surgery that would have kept me from shooting for months that would have still made me go through the same pt for rehab.

[tg2nd]

@BillJ: be carefull with the PT exercises you get from James, 'cause normally PT's select the exercises especially for one special patient. Means what was good for James might not be as good for you. Best way would be to go to a PT and he selects exercises for you.
Saying this by being a PT myself.
Good luck for your shoulder problems.

[Jim Wright]

Bill , like you I am resigned to the fact that I do not & never will have 100 % perfect form on every shot. I am however shooting longbows that have absolutely no handshock on every shot. I shoot Dan Toelke "whips", reflex/deflex 62" bows, 56lb's at my 29&1/2" draw. I am 62 years old & have some minor aches& pains but they were not caused by nor are they aggrevated by my bows! Since mass wt. was mentioned in other replys, I just checked & my whips weigh 20 oz's. I also have a recently received t.d. recurve from Dan and I find my 3-d scores slightly higher with it, probably because it is 14 oz.s heavier. Other than being a little noisier than the dead quiet whips, shooting one is like shooting the other, the two types have the same low wrist locator grip and to me shoot identically. Hope this helps and I would think it wise to see your own P.T. & get a routine tailored to you. Good luck!

[buckeye_hunter]

I don't know that a recurve will help.  I've shot some recurves that have as much handshock  as some longbows.

One of my biggest pet peaves about bows is hand shock.  I have shot a number of bows paying attention just to that one fact and here are some of the bows that I feel have very little handshock.  

This is just my opinion, in no particular order.

Zipper takedown recurve (never shot their takedown longbow)
Shrew longbow
Timberhawk Recurve
Bob Lee takedown longbow and recurve
Assenheimer recurve
Car-i-bow Silverfox takedown RD longbow

Again this is just my observation,
-Charlie

[BillJ]

Thanks again to all for their replies.  Interestingly, I just had a new neighbor move in next door, and he is both a PT and an avid archer.  Hmmm... perhaps I should knock on his door!

BillJ

[James Wrenn]

I would sure talk to him if I were you.

[HATCHCHASER]

Try a heavy riser 3 peice longbow.  I'll be in north east Ohio in October and would be glad to let you shoot my Dryad.

[Shakes.602]

A  "BowFit"  Exercise Package sounds like it will do the Trick. I have One that Helps Beat the Crappy Indiana Winters that Makes My Bones & Joints Hurt, It Helps Keep Things Limbered Up!  I THINK , Dont Hold Me To It Ok?     There are 2 seperate Pull Weight "Rubber Tubings". Light to Medium and the Medium to  WAY  too Much for Lil' Old Me!    
          Good Luck To You Sir!!  

[Shakes.602]

A  "BowFit"  Exercise Package sounds like it will do the Trick. I have One that Helps Beat the Crappy Indiana Winters that Makes My Bones & Joints Hurt, It Helps Keep Things Limbered Up!  I THINK , Dont Hold Me To It Ok?     There are 2 seperate Pull Weight "Rubber Tubings". Light to Medium and the Medium to  WAY  too Much for Lil' Old Me!