Carbon shafts another question

[Sticks2117]

I am looking at trying these things and find on the chart I should use caron express 150 cut to 27" (1/2" longer than my draw length) so my question is do I need all the weight tubes and special 200 grain insert for the front of the arrow, or will a simple insert with a 125 grain broadhead be enough? or do I have to go through months of testing with different over priced gadets to find what flies best. And one more thing the cutter do I have to spend $249.99 to cut these things or will my dremel be OK?

[JImmyDee]

The "tubes or inserts or not" answer depends on how much you want your finished arrow to weigh.  Weight all the components and decide.  Personally, I like heavy inserts better than tubes.

Don't "cut to length" before you know what that length should be.

Bareshaft tuning is the way to get close.  Start long with a limber shaft and trim it several times 'til it gets almost right.

Planing will get you the rest of the way there.  Fletch up a couple and put knives on the front end; shoot 'em with field points and adjust accordingly.

If your target is soft enough, you can temporarily install the inserts by simply wrapping them in plumber's teflon thread tape.

[Sticks2117]

Ok these are really great points but where do I start with the weight what is a good weight to begin with. Also I want the arrow as close to 27" as possible I just don't like alot of shaft hanging off my bow.

[JRY309]

Carbon arrows do not come in as many different spines as wood or aluminum.You adjust the dynamic spine by shooting and trimming or adding weight the front until you get the tune you want.Trying to get a carbon that will end up a 1/2" past your draw is a hit or miss deal.I tune my carbons until they fly good and the length they end up at is where I leave them.With carbons I don't worry about their length,thats just the nature of the beast.If you don't like a long arrow overhang I wouldn't pick carbons for my arrow choice.There are alot of used carbons for sale that were cut to a certain length and found they were to stiff and would not fly good.

[Bowferd]

You guys are bringing back memories of all those hundreds of dollars of arrows that I ended up selling for 1/2 price!!!!!!
I draw 28 and thought I needed 28" arrows, then 28 1/2, then 29, and then 29 1/2. I still love to shoot a 29" arrow if I can get it to fly right, but most of the shots are now placed with 30+ and even playing with some 33" cedars and bamboo. The extra length out front no longer bothers me as long as they fly straight.
Fred

[Gordon martiniuk]

Get over the short arrow thing it does not matter how long they are they will fly just fine at 29 or 30" and yes you do not need weight tubes but 100gr brass inserts are the answer CX150 with 100gr inserts and any point weight from 125gr to 200gr will work for your set up and oh yea if damage the tip of you arrow you can get it cut off glue in another insert and shoot it again if you cut them too short you will stiffen the spline and they may not fly good  best of luck    

[Paul Mattson]

Point wt has little to do with spine on carbons, shoot any thing from 125-220.

[Apex Predator]

"Point wt has little to do with spine on carbons, shoot any thing from 125-220."

I think many folks that have tuned carbons would disagree, including me.

[sweet old bill]

carbon shaft can be cut with your dremel. Lots of guys just put a piece of tape on the area they want to cut, measure, mark and then cut. Some have found for $29 bucks a cutter at Harbor freight and use this tool.

now to get into the area you will have a 100 different answers for:

1. carbon shaft the big problem is they are very stiff and most seem to get the wrong size.

 You did not say your true draw  weight, and arrow length.

I for one do not see the need to add a lot of extra weight upfront ( 100 gr brass weight )plus your 125 gr BH or target tip. If you are going to add weight, they you had better check the shaft size to make sure you do not get a shaft that when you add the weight it will become a shaft without enough spine for the bow.

I am shooting bemen shafts (500 size) the bow is a 50 lb at 28 inch draw, I have actual draw of 29 inch, the shaft was first cut at 30 inch. I used hot glue to hold the insert in and then installed a 125 gr field point. I shot the shaft without feathers ( bare shaft) and it seemed to work ok and fly fine. I did then use low heat applied to just the field point tip, removed the field point and insert from the shaft and then cut another 1/2 inch off the shaft. I reserted the insert / field point with hot glue and again tried the bare shaft tuning. The shaft seemd to give me a better flight at this length of 29.5 inches long. So I cut another 5 shafts, then made up the arrows with 3 5.5 bananna feathers, point inserts and 125 gr field tips...Latter I saw a dicussion on why to add weight upfront to get increase in Front of center on carbons and tried 1/8 inch polly rope put into the shaft from the nock end, cut to fit the shaft length, It did give me a better foc rating, and did not seem to change the flight of the arrows etc and or spine etc.

hope this helps

Bill

[Sticks2117]

Thank you all very much!!     I now have a better understanding of tuning carbons to my bow.    
Wish me luck I'm poor and need to make it work on the first try.    

[Bill Carlsen]

I am one who disagrees with Badger Arrow. Point weight on any shaft has changed things for me. I made custom arrows for many years, including carbons, and the statement you made is misleadiing. The only exception may be the tapered carbons like the AD or Grizzly sticks....but even with them you only get a slightly wider range to play with.

[zilla]

Originally posted by BadgerArrow:
Point wt has little to do with spine on carbons, shoot any thing from 125-220.

Would you care to explain?  You have my attention...

[O.L. Adcock]

"Point wt has little to do with spine on carbons, shoot any thing from 125-220."

Yep, poor advice...

Why are you guys spending so much on different arrows?? You can tune the arrows to the bow or you can tune the bow to the arrows or a combination of both. Any given bow will shoot a wide range of spines IF you are willing to put in a hour or two of effort....O.L.

[Sticks2117]

OK my bow came it is 53# at my draw weight I have ordered CE Hertiage 150's I want to cut them as close to 27" as I can so I will start at 27.5" I am using a Glue-In, Glue-On Broadhead Adapter at 20oz. and a 125 grain broadhead/ field tip. My question is do you think thats enough weight up front? or is a 100 grain insert necessary?

[ChristopherO]

As stated above:  do not cut them down to 27.5" right off the bat or you may be very sorry.  Cut off a little at a time, shoot bareshaft, and if not satisfied cut and shoot again.  If it comes in at 27.5" good for you but it may too stiff if you do that and then you may be out of good flying arrows.

[wihill]

In carbon arrows -

To increase the spine,
1) Reduce total arrow length
2) Increase knock end weight
3) Reduce point end weight

To decrease the spine,
1) Leave the arrow as long as possible
2) Reduce knock end weight
3) Increase point end weight.

Weight tubes/nylon rope inserts will not effect the overall spine, though they will add mass (weight) to the shaft.  

For bow weights from 40-50#, start with a full length .500spine arrow.  If closer to 40#'s, leave the arrow full length and slowly add point weight while bareshafting.  If closer to 50#'s, cut the shaft to the desired length and add point weight to bring it in.  If you want to use a short arrow with a 40#'s, you will need to either go to a .600spine carbon and start adding weights to both the knock and the tip, or severely overweight the tip of a .500spine arrow (+25%FOC).

GoldTip, and PDP make weight systems that work well in most .245-.247" diameter arrows (GT, Vapor, Beman non MFX, CX, etc...) and have systems to weight both the tip from the back of the insert, or the knock from a modified bushing.

Good luck!

[JUST-DOO-IT]

Brian,

In my opinion if you cut those arrows to 27.5 and only add 125 grains up front they will be way too stiff.

Those CE 150s are pretty stiff. Even at full length I don't think you will get perfect arrow flight with your draw weight and length with only 125 grains up front.

I'm going through the same excercise right now and learned the hardway by starting with an arrow that was too short ... I'm just thankful that I only cut one!