Grizz stick tuning

[wapitimike1]

Now, I know somewhere on here is this question but I can't find it. Has anyone had trouble with sticks tuning? Showing tail week for a lefty took close to a inch off hasn't changed. Also tried changing points (145-200) all just about the same. Calling the doc this morning for some Prozac!!

[Molson]

Forget the Prozac and go for the whiskey.  Burns cleaner with less side effects!

I can't get the things to tune at all to a center shot bow.  Always show and hit weak with a bare shaft regardless of point weight and I took them all the way down to 28 1/4". They fly even worse fletched! I did get them to tune to my non-center cut Mohawk and Ram Hunter. Go figure...

[longbawl]

Mine fly great maybe the best i have ever shot. Did you find the seam and turn it in toward the riser.

[Preston Lay]

Ive shot them for a few years and had no trouble.However I fletched up a new batch and they fly terrible. They seem to be spined too stiff. I went back to the old ones and flight is great. Ive tried all the new ones and had the same result.

[Doc Nock]

OL Adcock taught me this years ago...but I don't "share" it as well-worded as he does... but here goes.

Center shot has a lot to do with spine of arrow needed. The more center cut a riser is, the stiffer the arrow needs to be!

My Morrison recurve is 3/16" past...PAST center...and I need to shoot near 80# spine for a 48# draw at 28 so I'm pulling maybe 28.75" for near to 50# max!  That "should" be wayyy too stiff!

I "tested" various "evolutions" of Ed's Griz Sticks years back and when I went to the 75 Gr. brass insert... with the full taper shaft...I can't begin to get good flight...if I drop to the 29Gr. alum insert...bingo!

Some of the carbons respond very well to finding the high side of the layup of materials on each shaft and the make sure they are all consistent. Ed has directions on how to do that with his shafts.

I've taken my 6 shafts (3 -fletched 5"x3 and 3- unfletched) and shared them with friends with longbows in the mid to upper 60# range...and they show "STIFF" for them, but way weak for me outa a possibly 50# recurve Morrison.

Only Difference? (other'n mine was way lighter draw and shot weaker)

Amount of center cut/center shot!!!

OL said for years you can take a chose what arrow you WANT and then tune the bow to the arrow desired... can be all done with changes in the sideplate or length, or point weight...or combo of all 3!

   

[Jeff Sample]

Finally, someone else with my problem! I've considered going to Stiks for a heavy arrow shaft to replace woodies, and so have been watching the Stik threads. My problem - I shoot a 65# Silvertip cut 3/16 past center - I need arrows in the 110-114# spine (at 30.5" with a 125-gr head)!!!! It's near impossible to get woodies in that spine, and no one believes me when I tell them my spine requirement.  

[O.L. Adcock]

Doc is in there..

"I can't get the things to tune at all to a center shot bow. Always show and hit weak with a bare shaft regardless of point weight and I took them all the way down to 28 1/4". They fly even worse fletched! I did get them to tune to my non-center cut Mohawk and Ram Hunter. Go figure..."

Here in lies a problem, a finger shooter DOES NOT want a "centershot" bow. It's a desireable thing only from the standpoint it gives you more options to move the side plate in or out. The starting point for tuning is the arrow tip when nocked and string sighted down the middle of the limbs needs to be at least 1 arrow diameter away from center, 1 1/2 or 2 diameters aren't bad. I used 3 layers of Velcro side plate in the last set I tuned up. That's the starting point.

Wapitimike1, You committed the cardinal sin of tuning...You never cut a shaft until you verify with point weight, in other words since they were showing weak, until you can make them show stiff with point weight, don't cut!

Two things will make a shaft show weak, one is actually being weak, the other the the tail of the shaft hitting the riser especially if they are in reality too stiff. The closer to centershot a bow is, the stiffer the shaft they'll require and the less room for error/clearance the fletching/tail end will have. This happens a lot and cutting before verifying will only make things worse or no change at all. When you make a change and don't see a change, that's the first clue you went the wrong way or something else is amiss. Build out the side plate and start over and hope your cutting now won't require 500 grains to dial them in....O.L.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Dave and O.L. have it spot on (but that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone).

Whenever I recover from the back-op I plan to start testing the terminal performance of Ultra Extreme FOC arrows (those from 30% FOC, on up). That will require huge point weight on pretty low-mass per inch shafts. How can that be done? While I  have this 'down time' with my back I'm going to build up another longbow; one with no arrow shelf at all. It will have a simple peg rest. That will  greatly reduce the amount of static spine the arrow will need to achieve the correct dynamic spine. Problem of shaft availability solved!

I've found the Grizzly Stiks very easy to tune; easier than most carbon shafts. As with all tuning, the first need is to understand what you're trying to accomplish. Next you'll have to know what you need to be observing on your shots, and what it is telling you about the arrow's flight. Third, you need to know how each factor involved in the shot affects the arrow's dynamic spine. Then it's just a matter of 'tweak as needed'; making only one change at a time. O.L.'s web site in the best resource I've found for the needed information about arrow tuning.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Doc Nock]

Hehehehehe...I remember when I cut the Griz and called OL...man, did he call me some good Navy Names!    

Ain't happening for THIS season, but a nice winter project...

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Yep, that's the right Rx.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Molson]

I agree OL.  The problem I have with them is the PSR is cut to center and can only be built out a little bit before you're out of shelf space.  The Alaskan shows way weak with 250, a bit better with 200, and just about right with 145. This is with the brass insert so maybe I need to find some aluminum inserts because I want shoot about a 250 head (160 Griz + 100g adapt).

The Heritage 250's I have tuned to the PSR came in with 250 up front at 28 3/4".  With the Heritage 250 static spine somewhere around 85#, I think I'm right where I should be at that length and point weight for the 63# PSR.

I'll take any tips you've got to offer to get these Griz shafts to fly.  I've got about 16 of them and really wanted to get them to work.  Just not having much luck with it.

[Gene Hall]

Must be lucky.  I've shot Grizzer Stix for several years.  Fly so good out of all my recurves they ought to be illegal.  I've used all kinds of fletching sizes and shapes, point and insert weights... all fly like darts.
  Gene Hall

[Bjorn]

Gene, what bow are you shooting and which Grizzly Stix are you using.

[Skinner]

The Alaskans and Safaris I have owned in the past have been dynamite.  As far as these 2 dozen (or what is left of them) Sitkas, they are garbage.  They just break / crack looking at a tree stumps.

Skinner

[Gator1]

Very interesting O.L....
I just posted my latest tuning frustration:

From what O.L. has described, I'm wondering if I'm getting a False Weak Reading, meaning my GT/35's at 29 3/4's are actually too stiff?


I recently got my New Treadway, and had it cut to center, and thought this would help my tuning of arrows...

Maybe mike was right, he prefers 1/8" before center on his bows...

I think you bowyers know something...

[wapitimike1]

Can't understand it, had them tuned with a Dyna 97 string at 29 1/4"s 180grn point. I put the SilverTip string back on and it's tail right (I'm a lefty) from 29 down to 28"s. Went up and down with points just is not making any dif. Carbon Ex 150s 28 1/4"s or 250s 29"s perfect.

[Molson]

That would be a stiff shaft indicator for a lefty assuming the cause is not from tight nocks or something in your form.  Sounds like the string is sucking up some of the performance you were getting with the D97.  How far up did you go in point weight?

[Molson]

Oops.  Read that wrong.  That would be a weak indicator.  It's gotta be something that changed due to the string.  Sounds like OL is probably right and  it's a false read.

[wapitimike1]

I tried something and swapped bows. Now I kinda do the Howard Hill thing so it's not to much of a deal when I switch. But I will say, major performance does affect me. I've been shooting one bow pretty regular and I know it's not a speed demon. I picked up a bow of same basic poundage, 55#s @ 27. Now I've shot these two bows through a crony and the second one is close to twenty fps faster then the first. The second bow with a 150 grn point spits bullets, I couldn't get the 180s to fly.
  The thing that really drives me nuts with these sticks are they don't seem to tear up, down, or side to side. They give these crazy z or diagnal patterns. I will say 90% of my problem is my release. My release and follow trough stink. I tought my self the trad route with a old long bow, but because of a broken wrist I had a heck of of time. I developed some bad habits of throwing my hand to get the pain out of my wrist which in turn led to plucking and we all know how that goes. When I release correctly my arrows fly much better.
  I will most likely let the sticks sit till the off season and mess with them then. The problem with them not tuning is. They are so expensive you don't have a stack to practice with!

[onewhohasfun]

O.L Thank you. I was getting ok flight from my Alaskans but not great. After reading this  I slapped another pc. of velcro right over my existing setup and BINGO! Wow what a difference! perfect flight and arrows now go right where I am pointing. Wonderful!