Gorilla draw, carbon arrow help needed

[Dave Bulla]

Hi all.  Thanks to a helpful member of the KCTN I am in possetion of a half dozen Carbon Express Heritage 350's and I have a couple of questions.

Now, I've always shot wood arrows in the past so forgive me if I ask some stupid stuff that I aught to know...            

Anyway, in the interest of giving all the data needed for help, here's my setup:

Bow:____________66" hybrid longbow (Lonetree bow).
Draw weight:_____60# @ 30" so about 64-65# at my draw.
String:__________Fast flight.
Draw length:_____31 5/8" to the back of the bow.
Arrow length:____Cut to 32 1/8".
Insert:__________Brass.  Weight unknown but it's long.
Point:___________125 grains.
Shooting style:___Right handed, split finger, tab.
Shelf/sideplate:___Fuzzy side of velcro

Ok, that's the data as it stands now.  I really wanted to leave the shafts full length because I wanted the extra clearance for a broadhead.  The current 1/2" is marginal in my mind.  I guess it's actually about 3/4" with the extra 1/4" of insert that sticks out past the shaft.

When I started bareshafting, the shafts were full length and I wanted to use a high FOC setup with a 160 to 190 gr point but even the 125's showed pretty weak.  Point of impact was somewhat right and flight was nock left.  Sometimes pretty bad.  Groups were poor.

I cut 3/4" off the shafts and retested.  Still weak but better.  Since I knew bareshaft results SHOULD show a little weak, and having no more room to shorten up, I went ahead and fletched all six shafts 5" helical banna cuts.

Well, they fly GREAT.  However.....  I want a heavier, longer arrow and I'd like to try the high FOC setups everyone is talking about.

Now, the question if you're still with me is this, what's the next stiffer spine in these arrows and if I leave them full length (33"), could I get good flight with the same inserts and a heavier head in the 160 to 190 range?

I don't want to spend a bunch of money on arrows I can't use.

Also, if anyone out there has a similar draw length and weight, how do my findings compare with what you shoot?  What's your setup?

Thanks in advance.

[Molson]

Sounds like your brass inserts are 100 grain so you've actually got 225 up front on them now with the 125 head.  It is harder to get the high foc with arrow length that long but it can be done.  One way is to install the regular aluminum inserts and use steel adapters in your broadheads which will put more weight out front.  I think if you build your side plate out a little and switch to the aluminum inserts, you shouldn't have any problem leaving the 350's full length.  You should be able to find the broadhead/adapter combo you're looking for to get them tuned in.

[Biggie Hoffman]

Dave, I shoot 350's with 220 grains up front.
65#@32" draw. email me your address and I'll send you one to experiment with.
I too had some kick in my arrows until I finally gave in and tried the heavier points.
(I can be very stubborn)

[Shawn Leonard]

Dave I beleive ya can find some that have a .300 spine. That would allow you to leave them full length and shoot around 300 grains up front. As mentioned above it sounds like ya have 225 up front now. Shawn

[Dave Bulla]

Biggie, sounds like your draw is almost identical to mine give or take a half inch.  Thanks for your offer on the arrows but if you read my post, I'm already shooting 350's.  do you shoot yours full length?  I'm guessing if your actual draw is 32" then you about have to.  What kind of bow are you shooting?

Shawn, reading your post, I have to ask... Are teh numbers on carbon arrows actually a decimal measurement of deflection in thousandths of an inch?  That would make sense I guess and so .300's would be stiffer than the .350's I have now.

Might have to see if I can buy a couple or three .300's and play around with them next.

Thanks!

[Biggie Hoffman]

Rats. I see that now Dave...don't know how I mmmmissed it.
Yeah, I shoot mine full length. Actually I was shooting the same 350 with 220gr points yesterday with different bows.
Swamp Rooter Recurve, they have a little hop that I can't seem to get out. 55#@32"
Black Widow PLX every 4th or 5th arrow wobbles, must be me. 65#@32"
Great Northern Longbow PERFECT, 55#@32"
Seems like the lighter bows handle this set-up the best. This is a 70" bow and gives me better cast.

[Dave Bulla]

Biggie, That seems to corrolate prety much with what I've found.  With my draw length I've always seemed to find that the 5# per inch of draw doesn't apply very accurately after about 29 or 29.5 inches especially with a high performance bow, low stretch string etc.  Sounds to me like both of us could stand trying some slightly stiffer arrows then we would have more room to experiment with point weight.

By the way, did you ever bareshaft your arrows from your different draw weight bows?  I'd be curious at the difference between the 55# and 65# when bareshafting.  I tried mine out of an old 68" Root Targetmaster that is 50# @ 28" so about 61# at my draw and they showed stiff but it also had a dacron string and it's an old bow with the crossweave fiberglass so I don't know how the speed compares to modern bows.  From what I've experienced, for your 55# bows, you would be pretty close with 220gr up front but would probably be weak on the Black Widow.

[Biggie Hoffman]

No Dave, I never bareshaft.
There sure are a bunch more alternatives than ever before  :-(

[Shawn Leonard]

Dave they normally are but the CX's may be a tad different I know the 300 are stiffer than the 350s. I know other companies that have 300,400 and 500. that is very close to the actual spine of the arrow. Get some in the of the carbon express in the 300 and I am sure they will work as I said. Shawn