brace height vs poundage - Shrew

[Jerry Wald]

Just want to make sure i am on the right page here,

if you increase you brace height you should be decreasing your poundage a bit shouldn't you....

less travel less speed.

I am havinng a heck of a time tuning my new Shrew. I have 75# and 80# spined wood arrows and 130 and 145 grain tips. I have tried all the different combinations.

Always shot aluminums and carbons and it was easy to change tip sizes etc, but I don't have a lot of tips for wood arrows. So I have been trying to tune the bow to the arrows.

No problem on my ACS - Paul picked out some 75# spined arrows and 145 grain tips and shoot bullet holes no problem. Now the shrew is not cut wery close at all to center...not sure what it is but it's not much of a shelf so maybe that's what's giving me all the grief.

Paul is sending me some extra shafts to try and some extra tips.

Can't seem tp get bullet holes no matter what i try (probably my form and release I am thinking.

I have moved the brace height and nock point so many times I think I am going to lose it.

I tried the nock point at 3/8 - 1/2 - 5/8 - 7/8

braceheight at  - 6-3/4" - 7" - 7,25 - 7.5 - 7.73 - and even 8

I keep getting a tear up about 2" and to the left of center about 1/2"

I even put a match stick to put the plate out a bit, but there isn't much manuveraing room with a shrew.

Any help

58# at 28" and I draw about 28.5" arrows are 30" long it has a ron string on her so it's thin.

Jer Bear  

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Brace height changes do slightly affect poundage at your draw length. There was a discussion on this question last year, and many folks believed it didn't until O.L. chimed-in with his findings which confirmed this.

Short of trying yet another five pound jump in spine, I don't have any suggestions. In fact, I'm reminded of something Ken Beck said, which was along the lines of some combinations of archer and bow being impossible to totally eliminate a little nock-high flight, in which case, more feather could help.

All the best!

[Moooseran]

My 3 Shrews are 58" 55#,56# and 58#. I keep the brace height on all 3 at 7". I shoot 60-65 # tapered POC shafts cut 28 1/2" with 125 gr target points or Magnus 2 Blade heads. Also like the HEX shafts in the same weight and length. Hope this helps........Check with Ron he may have the answer to your question.......

[Jerry Wald]

Ron turned me on to Paul Jalon..Paul nailed my ACS CX

54#@28# with 75# 145 grain heads at 30# - I have 7-3/8" brace height and 5/8# nockpoint. It hits a bit nock high so it must be me - which is fine.

Paul is thinking the combination of 80# spine and the 145 grain heads that he figured would work are being underspined by the string. He is going to send me some arrows spined 5# heavier and some lighter tips and another 18 strand string.

Should be able to do something then. Just wanted to have as much weight as I could with a fairly fast delivery, but speed wasn't my main concern.

I will getter figured, but I was hoping that it was me     and not the bow (which I think is the case)

Jer Bear

[Missouri Sherpa]

Assuming you are right handed and based on your high left tear, you need to lower your nock point and use a little stiffer arrow, or lighter point, though a 1/2 inch tear to the left isn't much to overcome.

I have a couple of Shrew bows and they cast an arrow about as straight as any bow I have ever tried to tune.  One is 59# at 28 and the other is 62# at 28.  I draw them to 30".  I have a 7 3/8 brace and a brass nock at 3/8.  I use a very small finishing nail, about 1/32 on the side plate which I cover in velcro loop material.  My arrows are 65-80# carbon from Cabelas cut to 31"  I use a 160 grain STOS or Deadhead with a 100 grain steel point adapter.  This combo will bare shaft real good.  I use 3  5 1/2 high shield cut or 4  4" parabolic for fletching.  I am using a heavier arrow shafting, much heavier point (260 grain with the adapter) and pulling maybe 6-8 pounds more draw weight at my draw.  In my experience carbon shafts do not have quite the same flex characteristics as wood and are easier for me to tune.

[Jerry Wald]

plus your carbons will be way smaller in diameter right gettin gthem closer to centershot.

Thanks everyone and I am determined to get 'er right...just some more fiddling.

Worst thing is that we don't have an archery shop here so everything we do is by e-mail and over the phone. Then we wait and wait and wait for the dog sled team to deliver them. :(  

I feel like buying every shaft on the market in 3 or 4 different sizes and a ton of tips.

Then I can use them for testing...then you can order what flies best later. I think woodies (and I maybe wrong here big time) are more fineke in the beginning but more forgiving after they are sized right.

Jer Bear

[Big Ed]

How is your nock fitment on the string? Also try using a nocking point above and below the arrow. My Shrews like the 7" brace and my nocking point is at 5/8". Also are you shooting three under or split finger? Big Ed

[tradtusker]

also if you shoot 3 feathers try shoot cock feather IN

[Arwin]

Sounds nock high, and you might be overspined. I beleive the Shrews are not center cut which would exaggerate overspined shafts, for example, arrows constantly going left for a right handed shooter.

[Bjorn]

The ACS is cut 3/16 past center. Shrew is close to center cut, you need 10# lower spine arrows. Building out the side plate will make things worse.
I shoot the same woods from my ACS-49@28 as you do; but they won't work in a shrew.
Start with 10# lower spine and see what happens, and I think the brace and nock will fall right into line.

[mparks]

See this thread in the shooters forum:
 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=004247

[WESTBROOK]

Jerry

I think the #80 arrow is more than enough, I think it is in your string hand and drawing arm.

I went through the same deal, you realy gotta watch finger pressure on the string (ring finger mostly) deep hook and keep the elbow down.

Eric

[Ron LaClair]

Jerry, with you're arrows cut at 30" you're probably under spined. Even though they are 75 or 80# spined at 26" the spine is lessened as the shaft is longer. The stiffer arrow should work out for you. You're not going to like a 18 strand string on your Shrew..    

Shrew bows are cut 1/8th" or less from center.

[Jerry Wald]

Thanks Ron and to the rest of you for your input. Paul said th estiffer spine would work.

All I want is to get enough choices when he ships the stuff so I can getter done.

I can't get anything here so If he sends me all the things I asked for then I will be able to make something work and then we know where we stand is all.

Jer Bear

[danseitz]

I don't shoot a Shrew; I shoot a Griffin.  They are very close in design.  (Personally, I think the Griffin riser is not as reflexed as the Shrew which would make it a little faster.  That is my opinion from observing them.  I would not testify to that in court.)

Anyway, my Griffin is 59 @ 29 and I draw 29.  I have a 12 strand dyno string from McCullough and shoot 30" 75-80 sitka spruce woodies and Carbon Express Heritage 250s.  I found that my Griffin likes a brace height of 7 1/2 inches and a nocking point set at 5/8 inch. My woodies are tapered and about 585 grns with a 125 grain pt.  The carbons are about 565 with about 200 grains on the front end.

It is a joy to shoot. I would think that your bow should shoot well with something pretty much like my setup I described above.

[Orion]

Take another look at Mooseran's response.  He has an almost identical setup, and he's shooting a lot lighter shafts.  You're probably drawing 60# or so, with 23/64 shafts (I'm guessing) and an arrow shelf that is not center shot.  The thicker shafts and shelf not cut to center move the shaft further from the center of the bow requiring a decrease in spine, not an increase.   You should be able to get good arrow flight with 65-70# spines, maybe even 60-65#.  I think, like Westbrook, that the problem may be in your release, not the spine.  Really think you should try some lighter spines though.  Good luck.

[Ron LaClair]

Jerry, I just got off the phone with Paul and he and I both agree that you definitely don't want to go with a lighter spine. We didn't come to this conclusion by guessing. Paul has been making arrows for over 50 years and knows his stuff. Over the last 25 years or so I have helped a few hundred bow shooters in choosing the proper arrow for their set up. Sometimes it isn't as easy over the phone or by email as it would be one on one when the shooter can observed in action. Sometimes draw lengths quoted  are not what they actually are and that changes things quite a bit.

Paul is sending you a few arrows to try. I'd suggest that your arrows do not need to be 30" since your draw is close to 28". When you get the arrows and try them let Paul or me know how they work out.  Keep in mind that Paul and I are more familiar with  what arrows will fly best out of the Shrew bows so please don't get confused by the conflicting opinions of other well meaning people

[Orion]

18 -strand string?  This would slow it down, again seeming to call for a lighter spine requirement. But Ron, I defer to your judgment on Shrews.  This Jerry will be interested in the results as well.  :confused:

[Missouri Sherpa]

Jerry,

Please let us know the answer to this puzzle when you have it solved.  Thanks and good luck.

[Jerry Wald]

I will keep you all posted...just a waiting game now

Jer Bear