Hey John, Yes,It's has been along time my friend! I moved to cicero a couple years back from lpool, i wish i did live closer to linc,I'd have him still shooting his bows more, he gets me into trad and he fades out! I've seen the ostrich grips your talking about, I had thought I seen rubber, fake beavertail grips someplace! I have been trying to put real beavertail on my bow but can't get the lacing right, the tail rips to easy!! I have 3 more tails in the freezer to work with, but this all takes time away from shooting!!Jim