Watco Oil Shaft Soak Questions??

[Daddy Bear]

I'm going to tinker with some Douglas Fir shafts and I have a few questions on using Watco oil from those in the know:

- Is there a preference between Watco "Danish" and "Teak" oils? Watco sells their "Teak" version for hard wood and it is recommended for outdoor use. Not sure if it makes a difference for arrows and was looking for some guidance.

- Can I stain my shafts before soaking in Watco? If I can, which stain is recommended?? These arrows are intended to be plain and simple using natural turkey feathers. I will dye the cock feathers and I think I'd like to use some type of light stain which shows the grain yet adds some color/tint to the shaft and/or cap. Maybe a tint of red and/or gray.

- What diameter tube are you guys using to soak a 1/2 dozen at a time? I don't expect the Douglas Fir to soak up much weight, but I would like to soak the shafts several days to a week to ensure they are fully soaked and sealed.

Thanks in advance for any input to my questions.

Daddy Bear

[Orion]

Daddy Bear:  

If you stain before soaking, the stain will close/fill the wood pores so the soaking in watco will not add much weight.  Why not just pick a watco oil in the color you want?  As far as I know, all the Watco oils are Danish, teak being just one particular color.  

You're right about Doug fir not picking up much weight in the soaking.  While my 11/32 cedars will pick up about 75 grains per shaft, on average, Doug fir only gained about 20 grains per shaft.  These figures are for raw shafts.  If you stain them first, they'll pick up a lot less weight, if any at all.

I use a 2-inch diameter tube.  Can do a dozen shafts at a time with it. If I don't pressurize the tube, I usuallylet them soak for 5-7 days.  Good luck.

[Broken Arrow 1]

I recently soaked one and a half dozen cedar shafts in a 2 inch piece of pvc pipe in the watco teak oil. The first six I stained a week prior to soaking them, and orion is right they did not pick up very much weight at all the (5to17grains) The next twelve I stained them and imidiatley put them in the oil. I left them in there for roughly 72 hours and with those I gained anywhere from 60 to 85 grains. I also used a polyureathane finish on them afterwards. It seems to have worked very well. But please remember this is my first time ever doing this.

[Daddy Bear]

I guess my wording was poor. I'm speaking of using a dye such as an aniline dye which soaks into the wood. I'm not speaking of using a pigmant stain that plugs the pores on top of the wood. I wanted to lightly dye the shafts gray with the cap lightly dyed red so that all the wood grain shows through. I've seen where this was done w/ an alcohol leather dye but the Watco was only wiped over top of the dye. Not sure if soaking for several days to a week would lift and wash out the dye below the surface. Not sure if the two are compatible.

I do not particularly care for the available Watco Danish colors, I was looking for a two tone faint gray and a faint red. Also, the Qatco teak does not appear to be a color, it appears to be a natural finish that is formulated for penetration in dense wood and it is designed for outdoor marine UV exposure. Watco Danish is for indoor use. Not sure it matters for arrows.

Any thoughts on using an alcohol or water based aniline dye for the shaft prior to the Watco soak? Also, Does anyone have experience with the differences between the Watco Danish Natural and the Watco Teak Natural oils. Does the Teak oil penetrate any better??

Thanks:)

[Pig Sticker]

thanks for posting this TTT

Gonna build a doz woodies next week.

[Orion]

Daddy Bear:  I've used the Danish Natural and Teak Natural and they penetrated about the same, i.e., gave me the same weight gain.  Also turned out about the same color, i.e., natural.

Watco doesn't make the colors I prefer either.  I wanted to make up a batch of black shafts so I tried mixing 8 ounces of Minwax oil based ebony stain with the Watco natural oil.  Both oils, figured they should have worked together.  Got the same amount of weight gain, but the stain didn't take to the shafts very well.  However, I was using ACME premiums, which have a very polished exterior which doesn't take stain particularly well.

Haven't tried the alcohol or water based aniline dyes before soaking in watco oil.  However, I don't think it would work that well.  The dye I have was a powder which was mixed with alcohol.  Seems that powder, as it dries in the wood, would fill the pores just like an oil based stain would.  Probably only the carrier that's different.  I have used the dye after soaking with Watco, and it doesn't work very well that way.  Imparted a little color, but probably half or less than half strength.

Long story short, if you want to two-tone dye your shafts before soaking them in Watco oil, I doubt it's going to work very well.  Would be interested in your results if you try it though.    

[Dave Bulla]

I'd try one or two first.  Probably one dyed exactly to the shade I wanted and the other quite a bit darker.  Will probably make a difference if you use water based dye or alchol based too.

I expect that a dyed shaft that was allowed to dry completely before being soaked in the Watco oil would retain quite a bit of it's color unless you got kinda vigorous wiping off the excess oil when you took the shaft out.

[Daddy Bear]

I found someone on a different board who uses water-based aniline dye. He allows the aniline dye to completely dry prior to soaking the shafts in Watco oil for one week. He reports that both the dye and Watco oil work well.

Orion, thanks for the info. I didn't think that aniline dyes contain the solid color pigments used in stains which color the wood by collecting and filling in the outer pores. I thought the aniline powder completely dissolved when mixed making a dye that colors the wood by actually absorbing into the wood fibers below the surface without plugging the pores. I'm going to give it a go and see how it works.

Thanks Everyone!

later,
Daddy Bear

[Bear Heart]

There is a good article on this in the current TBM.

[draco]

If you want to give them more point weight just soak the front 6" in Watco for a few days and then rub the Watco on the rest of the shaft.

[Daddy Bear]

In my search, I read somewhere about soaking the front end of the shaft. It was reported not to work because the shaft absorbs the oil within the wood fibers and it is impossible to control the transition between the soaked front end and the remainder of the shaft. You end up with differences in how far the footing soaks up and down the shaft.

[Orion]

Yep.  The process is called osmosis.  Sucks that liquid up the shaft just like a straw.