how much bow is needed?

[wharvey]

How much bow is needed for big game hunting is an often-posted question. A while back I did a web search and came up with the following from numerous sites such as :
   Kinetic Energy is King  

The minimum recommended kinetic energy for whitetails is 45 ft/lbs.
For larger game 55 ft/lbs of KE is the minimum recommended.

To put this in perspective my three bows give the following:

Martin Howatt Hunter – 35 lb draw at 28”
485 gr. Wood arrows shoot @ 149 fps for a KE of 23.8 ft/lbs.
500 gr. Aluminum arrows  @ 139 fps for a KE of 20.4 ft/lbs.

Martin Hatfield – 55 lb draw at 28”
500 gr. Aluminum arrows @ 180 fps for a KE of 35.9 ft/lbs.

1970’s vintage Darton wheel bow – about 60 lb pull – draw length set at 30.5”
500 gr. Aluminum arrows @ 170 fps for a KE of 32 ft/lbs.

Now I know as well as everyone else that with a proper arrow, the Hatfield and wheel bow are both easily enough for whitetail and probably most anything else on this continent. Even the Hunter is OK for deer in several states. Yet according the the web site cited above, as well as many others, none of my bows is even adequate for deer hunting.  Makes me wonder what the authors of these sites are thinking.

Just thought I’d throw this out for comment.

[NorthernCaliforniaHunter]

Just as it's illegal to shoot a deer with a .22LR though we all know that a .22 will kill a deer if placed in the right spot. I suppose a lot of the figures are intended to ensure a greater probability that a poor shot (placement) will still be lethal (ethical).

[Tbay]

I agree with NCHunter, they err on the side of safety, sometimes to the point where it borders on ridiculous.  This, clearly is one of those times.

[Charlie Lamb]

Those types of recommendations always err on the side of the compound bow and it's very possible that the authors are in the pocket of some compound bow company.

Besides, KE is about how fast the arrow leaves the bow and not about how fast it slows down when it hits something, which is momentum and whatever it's dang formula is.

[vermonster13]

The objective of those comments is to sell faster and faster bows. You'd think nothing had ever been killed with a bow before wheels.

[wharvey]

I had the impression that it was to support wheel bows using the fastest arrows possible. It also strikes me as the same thing as saying that you need at least a .300 magnum when a 30-30 has been used for years with much success. I can't believe how many new rifle calibers have come out during the last 10 years without any apparent practical reason.

[ron w]

I have no doubt that a 40# bow with a 500gr arrow and a sharp broadhead will shoot right thru a deer at 20 yards or less, given proper shot placement.Tables and charts are great if you want to sell the latest and the greatest, but we here all know what this game is all about. Get close, pick a spot, Keep'm sharp!!

[Bob Sarrels]

I see that as a pile of crap.  My 52lb recurve shooting a 540 gr arrow at 168 fps develops 33.5 ft pounds of energy and shoots pretty much thru everything.  I think its a coumpound gimick.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by wharvey:
How much bow is needed for big game hunting is an often-posted question. A while back I did a web search and came up with the following from numerous sites such as :
   Kinetic Energy is King  

The minimum recommended kinetic energy for whitetails is 45 ft/lbs.
For larger game 55 ft/lbs of KE is the minimum recommended.

 

Right around 42 ft/lbs of Ke. I guess he didn't get the memo.    

 

Long and short of it: I personally put more stock in what's been proven to work over the past several decades than the latest charts or theories people seem to come out with every time the moon phase changes.

[legends1]

When I started archery with my family back in the day archery was just archery, and before it became traditional.We never talked much about what bow weight was need to hunt big game.The bows in those days lbs. for lbs. didnt shoot as fast as the bows of today.We stacked alot of deer and hogs with bows from 35# to 50#.and never gave it a thuohgt.Because we got in close and made shots at your efective range.Thats waht archery is.I think those who only shoot compounds think and hunt more like a rifle hunter.The need for speed and to reach out and shoot at long ranges.It doesnt matter how fast your bow is it wont make you shot any better.What ever your efective range is the range you should only take shots from.Get close,thats the meaning of archery.

[freefeet]

Originally posted by wharvey:
The minimum recommended kinetic energy for whitetails is 45 ft/lbs.
For larger game 55 ft/lbs of KE is the minimum recommended.

Would this be more in line with using a wheelie bow with lightweight arrows shooting out to 100 yards using poor penetration heads such as the none cut on contact and mechanical nail head types?

[Whip]

And this is a very good example of why you shouldn't believe everything you read - especially on the internet!

[cedar swampman]

Why is there this assumption on the trad side that one must shoot light arrows with compounds? They will shoot a heavy arrow with greater speed also. The bow that shoots a light arrow faster will shoot a heavy  arrow faster   also. I agree this move in the modern trad movement for ever increasing poundages to achieve penetration has caused more problems than it has solved. 45 -50lb sticks have killed alot of game and they were shot by people who developed good form and were accurate at ranges that a great number of present day archers couldn't hit crap. Compounds made it easier for the average person to achieve accuracy that a stick in many cass but also has led to the demise of archery as far as enchouraging people to develope good archery form in my opoinion.Rifle attitude carried over-"I got my pins set I am ready to hunt". Both types of bows are equally effective for taking game but still one needs to practise with their given weapon.

[freefeet]

Originally posted by cedar swampman:
Why is there this assumption on the trad side that one must shoot light arrows with compounds?

My post above wasn't an assumption that one must shoot light arrows with wheelie bows, i was just trying to raise the point that as a lot of wheelie bows are marketed with high speeds shooting light arrows then maybe the KE recommended above would be to include that kind of set up.  My thinking was that a light arrow shot out to 100 yards would lose a lot of its initial KE while flying and then add to that using broadheads that have to punch a hole rather than cut a hole all in all would require a lot higher KE than a trad bow shooting heavy arrows at 20 yards with cut on contact heads.  It was just a thought as to why the figure quoted was so high, i wasn't assuming that anyone has to shoot anything.

[vermonster13]

The light arrow weight assumptions come from the very method they use to test the bows for speed.

"The AMO has devised a method for measuring the speed of an arrow: shooting a 540-grain arrow from a 60-pound bow with a draw length of 30 inches. All compound bows will have an AMO speed as well as all other bows available for purchase. Another organization, the International Bowhunter's Organization (IBO) has also devised a measurement for arrow speed that seems to be becoming more popular. This speed is determined by shooting a 350-grain arrow from a 70-pound bow with a draw of 30 inches. The AMO speed will always be lower than the IBO speed."

Next time you see a compound ad, check for yourself which method the manufacturer uses for their speed numbers.

[Charlie Lamb]

Well, I think we have our answers and this thread has evolved into a compound bow discussion and therefore off topic for this website.