TBM's Peterson on Ethics

[Onehair]

I just read Davids article in the last TBM. It started me to thinking and it seems the ethics issue for many  a can be moving target. To me ethics is that part of your conscience that keeps you centered. It's based on morals, not legality. Laws are at the outer edge, that visible line created for those without ethics. For example a man cheats on his wife. It's legal. But ethics (morals) stand in the way. What say you.

[2treks]

I agree, Laws are for us to follow, like it or not."Give unto Ceaser that which is Ceasers"If we do not like Ceaser, VOTE! for a new one. If we all did as we please then we would have a mix of the wild west and mad maxx. We are forced to treat others with respect and to act in a way that is in respect for others. I debate this with my Buddies all the time. "I bought this farm, I can do what I want". Well,if we all held to this line of thinking, what would it be like. A fellow can't make up laws and rules to suit them and the way they what to get along in life. Prisons are full of people that did this. If a person thinks and acts to the contrary, Then the moral and ethical stance is not an option.
   Justification does not make it right or moral or ethical. We must hold to a higher standard, that is RESPECTFUL.

[SELFBOW19953]

In the military, we used the term "professionalism", which was defined as "doing what is right, even when no one is looking".  I think this can be used for defining "moral and ethical" as far as it goes. Like Chuck said, we can't do as we please.  Is it unethical for Byron Ferguson to take a 40 yard shot at a deer?  It would be for me, because I don't practice much past 20 yards. Is it morally and ethically wrong to shoot a spotted fawn?  In areas with heavy winter kills, fawns die first, you are utilizing a resource.  In milder areas, winter kill is virtually unheard of. Is it morally and ethically wrong to not use your one and only tag to put an an injured/sick animal out of it's misery on your once in a lifetime big game hunt?  Your family has done without and scrimped and saved to make your hunt possible, and you've "given up" any chance at a freezer full of meat to put an animal out of it's misery. If a husband and wife have agreed to an "open" marriage, where anything goes, is it morally and ethical wrong for either of them to sleep around?  Morals and ethics usually are not the same in every case, for every person.

[longbowman]

I agree with the Peterson article.  Basically I can't live out your ethics and you can't live out mine.  What is ethical is what is ethical to me and you can't make my ethics for me.  Laws are laws and they are there because too many people feel that they have a right to anything and everything because they were born.  I don't see a real correlation between laws and ethics.  The last time I looked in my mirror it wasn't your face I saw but it was the face of the one I have to live with.

[SteveMcD]

Yes, as always thought proviking, good article. I liked the dilemma David painted for the hunter who has an opportunity to hunt in another area and use a method that would be considered illegal in his home area and equally unethical. What would he do? Stick to his ethics and risk being labeled an elist? Or lower his ethical standard for this hunt? Knowing that he'd have to live with that. IMO as a psychology major, ethics are like values, very hard to change within an individual. My answer to this dilemma is simple,   "To Thine Own Self Be True".

[vermonster13]

Ethics/Morals are internal and built on one's beliefs, faith and experience. Laws are external and should be written to protect the citizens, property and resources. The problem is law is often used to try legislate morality/ethics as viewed by the political body.

[GMMAT]

I've been saying this, for years.

Ethics is doing the right thing....when even the wrong thing isn't against the law.

It works both ways, though.

Ethics is doing the right thing....when even the right thisng IS against the law.

[Onehair]

Said to say I have hunted with a few that appeared to have no ethics and the law was only applicable if you got caught. Try as I might , I never changed anyones thinking by much. At least up until now we have been able to set the bar as high as we like. I wonder can Tradtional Archers get covered by the new Hate Crimes Bill.

[PAPALAPIN]

Ethics brings in the balance of reputation and Character.

Your reputation is based on what you do out in the open when everyone knows.

Your Character is based on what you do alone, and no one will ever know.

[SELFBOW19953]

GMMAT,

The only problem with "Ethics is doing the right thing....when even the right thisng IS against the law." is that it's against the law.  Sadly, many of the enforcement types follow the letter of the law, not matter that your intentions were honorable, ethical, and moral.  You could end up with a reputation you don't want or losing your license.

[GMMAT]

I'm fully aware, Selfbow.....and I'll live with the repercussions.  Not only do I need to live within the letter of the law, but I need to be able to look myself and my son in the mirror at the end of the day.

Situation "ethics".....

It's May...and no deer season is in effect, here.  If a deer were hit by a car (and bedded in my woods) and I felt the wounds were lethal, I'd put it down in a second.  Legal?  I don't really care.  If I'm cited for this, I'm OK with that.  I did what was right.

Would I speed and run red lights to get a family member to the hospital (within reason)?  Surely.

I have NO issues with a man who lives PRECISELY by the letter of man's law.  I suspect we both sleep just fine.

[Onehair]

Living by the letter of the law can be tough. I was involved with a contract dispute 3 yrs ago. A federal judge in New Orleans ruled in my favor. The opposing side did not file for an appeal but filed in federal court in Ga. That judge ruled for them. I asked my attorney what judge do I abide by, he answered both.

[snag]

What is on the outside of the nation's Supreme Court building? Moses holding the tablets with the 10 commandments! We as a nation have been trying to make our own laws. This is ok for me, you can do what is ok for you..on and on. Rebellious spirits! Be careful America. God allowed the Israelites to wonder for 40yrs. in the desert. When they finally turned back to God it took a mere 11yrs to enter the promised land! What do you want 40yrs in the desert or 11 days? This will probably be deleted...but it is true.

[rastaman]

What Jack said....what you do when no one is looking...and only you can answer that.

[George D. Stout]

Well it should be obvious to the person who has to abide by the decision.  If you don't know, I doubt anyone can bring you to understand ethics.

[OkKeith]

Thought I would throw my two cents worth in here as well.

For me ethics and morals are not the same thing. To continue a previous example:

An ethical man knows that cheating on his wife is wrong (even if it is legal); a moral man doesn't cheat.

I think it was Supreme Court Justice Louis Dembitz Brandeis that said morality can not be legislated but laws and codes can define the boundary of ethical behavior for mankind.

An ethical code of conduct (superceding the law) is defined by an individual or a group of like minded individuals and enforced by the same. As an example, look at the six articles of the military code of conduct. If we think of this as basic, the additional code of conduct adopted by soldiers who join the Society of the Honor Guard (those soldiers who guard the Tomb of the Unknown Solider) is far more restrictive and I think a lifetime commitment.

So... do we say that soldiers who follow the Code of Military Conduct to the letter are some how less ethical than those who have committed to a higher level of commitment? I don't think so.

I use this example because my little brother is currently studying and going through the process to undertake the Honor Guard commitment.

Within the law, my ethics are not better than yours if they are different. If I choose to join an organization and pledge my adherence to a defined code of ethics, and fail to live up to that commitment, I can understand someone's problem with me. But an individual, adhering to the law, can establish his own code of conduct and should not be looked down on by someone else that has an alternate code.

Guess that may have been more like a buck seventy-five worth.

OkKeith