longbow design question

[Titan_Bow]

This was my first custom longbow. I received this bow as a gift when I was 14 years old, back in 1989/90.  The bow is osage and purpleheart, and was built by Steve Martin of West Virginia. We had met this great man attending some traditional shoots in NC, and Herb Reynolds helped me set the bow up, and gave me a nice set of arrows to go with it.
 Anyhow, the bow is 64" long, 63# at 28".  The bow is absolutely the quietest bow I've ever shot. It is super stable, almost no handshock, and is probably the most forgiving longbow I've ever shot.  It is an absolute dream to shoot, and I shoot it probably better than any other bow I own.  Its only drawback I guess, is it is not very fast. Maybe 150's or so with a hunting weight arrow.

 I guess my question is for the guys that build and play around with glass bow designs.  Looking at this bow, do you think the good shooting qualities are coming primarily from the mass-forward style riser, and the additional mass in the riser?  
  Do you think a bow of this style, with a more modern R/D limb design would shoot as good?  What might be some drawbacks from a design like this?  
  In all my years of shooting a longbow, I have rarely seen a design similar to this.  Was Steve ahead of his time, or on a dead end road with this?

   
   
   
     

[3Under]

Jonathan,
What weight arrow are you shooting in your Steve Martin bow? Steve actually lives in Frankfort KY not WV! Although Steve still shoots some he has been less active in bow building lately. I 've shot and seen several of the model of bow that you have. They are faster than an all wood English longbow. Have you chronograph the bow or are you comparing it to other bows?

[mjc]

ttt I'm curious too

[vermonster13]

The Habu Death Adder is of similar design

[Jeff Strubberg]

I'd say the riser mass is a big help, but the number one advantage is the lower speed.


I'm a big fan of efficiency, but it's a fact of life that the faster a projectile is travelling, the less likely any number of problems are to arise.

[Titan_Bow]

I'm only guessing at the speed in comparison to my other bows.  My arrows are around 600 grains.
 I'm not asking the question because I am looking for more speed, but rather, because I wanted to try my hand at glass bow building eventually, and this bow has more of the traits that I would want to incorporate into my own than any other design I've seen so far.
   My thought with my design would be to induce a little deflex at the fadeouts, and add slight reflex in the limbs. Not anything radical, but just a slight R/D design.
 Ultimately, if going with more of a R/D limb design would kill the shootability but gain speed, then I wouldn't want to go that route.  I just didnt want to make a carbon copy of someone elses bow, but rather, incorporate the aspects that I find most appealing.

[Ron LaClair]

I haven't seen Steve in years, he use to come to the GLLI longbow shoots here in Michigan, a very nice man.

The bow looks like is has a 60's era Bear influence in the riser. You said you shoot it better than any other bow you have. That tells me the bow fits you and your style of shooting. Accuarcy and stability are ALWAYS the most important things in a bow, speed is less important and I wouldn't be concerned about it if I were you. Don't mess with what works.

[Ron LaClair]

Titan, our post crossed in space.  

It's good that you want to incorperate your own design/influence into a bow that you make yourself. Many of todays bows are just attempts to repilcate another bow. Being original is a greater challange.

I think the only way you're going to find out what you want to know is to do it. If you can achieve the good qualitys that you like in this bow plus a little more that you want it will be worth the undertaking.

Good luck

[James Wrenn]

A nice looking bow! I like that style of bow with the handle forward and shoot them better than most bows.One thing I found is when a bow shoots good for you and you enjoy shooting it there is no use thinking what if.    Just enjoy it.

[Foam Steak]

I didnt know you trolled around here!  Thats a cool picture of you and Joey.  I will give you a call sometime to see how the late season is going.  

I am going to a traditional shoot in Harrodsburg later this month.  I will ask some of those guys if they know Steve Martin. Heck, maybe he will be there?  Talk to you later.

[Hatrick]

Titan, although I'm not an experienced bow builder I'm about to embark on the amateur end myself. For what it's wroth. here's my $.02.

Very interesting design! It looks like you have the brace height set pretty high for that style handle. If you could reduce the brace height a bit without loosing any of the shooting qualities it may get a tad faster as is.

I agree with Ron. Why not use the same basic design but add your own idea with a bit of deflex and a bit of reflex and see how it goes. As you said, I would not add much R/D. Also, I would look closely at the laminations in the bow. If they're all paralel now you may add a tapered lam or two to get some more action out of the working part of the limb. I'm sure others with a lot more knowledge can give you better direction here.

How about the same basic design with a deeper core and thinner limbs? I'm not one to think that a deeper core necessarilly means slower for a longbow design. Does this bow accept non stretch string materials?

By the way, how long is that riser section from fade out to fade out? With the shooting characteristics you describe it sounds like you already have a winner.

Just some thoughts and I'm interested to see other responses.

[Cutty47]

Hatrick...cool think about a deeper core is it really let's you make the most of carbon lams...stick some carbon on that design and you'd have nearly a perfect design in my book...forgiving as heck, stable...still wouldn't be a burner, but it would be respectable...

[Ol Man]

Titan,

The bow is similar to the old Stotler's in design. Some of the old...BW's are similar as well.  The forward rise, pre-stressed limbs and the length of the riser all add to the smoothness of shooting this type of bow.  As stated - the lower speeds make the bow less critical to error in release or style of shooting.  

Inducing R/D into this design would in my opinion be detrimental to overall design/functionality.(Love the looks of it JMO!)  But, that being said - Bill Price did exactly what you are about to do in his bows and - I had one of em.  It was fairly fast but the accuracy was better and far more consistent than any other bow I had ever owned. (Except my Howard Hill bows)  The use of new core materials (boo/fatflex, carbon)would benefit even this copy of this but - if @ R/D or even a Perry style reflex was induced I think you would have a lighter and very enjoyable bow to shoot. And quite fast to boot.   Good luck - and keep us posted.

[Cutty47]

Ol Man...what's fatfex?  Never heard of it...