Skinny D97 on a 65 Kodiak?

[Bear]

I'm thinking about trying this, but don't want to destroy my baby. It is marked 42# @ 28", but I draw it to about 30". My scale shows 45# at my draw, but that scale is known to be a little light, so I dont know if 40 years has reduced the wieght or what.

Either way, we're not talking about a heavy bow. So will it handle it? I was thinking about 6 strands with the loops padded to 12 or 14. Switching from Flemish to endless B50 made a huge difference, I'd love to see what this would do.

[vtmtnman]

 

DON'T do it.

[bentpole]

ABSOLUTELY NOT!     :eek:                :eek:   Your limb tips will not handle the string. B-50 = sewing thread; D97= piano wire.

[LONGBOWKID]

NO!!!! Why destroy a good bow for 10 feet per second?

[robtattoo]

Originally posted by Bear:
I'd love to see what this would do.

Me too! (But from behind a plexi-glass shield, about 20 yards behind you)

If you really want to see what it'll do, I can send you pictures of quite a few broken bows  

[Old York]

Hmmmm....your proposed scenario reminds me of the time my pal Biz & I cranked a 30.06 shell into the vise and smacked it with a hammer.

[Blackhawk]

I always see responses that YELL not to do it, but have yet to personally see any evidence when someone was using padded loops.  

At our last trad shoot, a guy was shooting an older Kodiak Hunter with D97 and was poo-pooing all of us who were warning him.  He just said, "yeah, I know, I know...but I've been shooting this bow like this for 10 years."

I say go ahead, but have the camera handy for pics in case it breaks.  We can then refer the next guy with this question to your pic.

[Bear]

Project aborted. Risk outweighs benefit.

[James Wrenn]

I would not tell you to do it but if it was my bow and I liked shooting it a good string would be one it. I don't do b-50 on nothing.  

[ron w]

Why ruin a nice old bow,even if it worked all your gonna get is a few ft. per second; don't bother......

[Jeremy]

I love the "only a few ft per second" comments.  10 ft/sec is the equivalent of an additionaly 10# of draw weight.  That's big.  However....

even if a bow were slower with the low stretch strings, I'd still use them.  I like the crisp feeling of the bow after the shot, the lack of wrist slap on low braced bows and the reduced noise (higher pitch, lower decible).

I put a TS1 string on an old Pearson.  Didn't like the bow at all with B50, but it was damned sweet with the TS1.

What do I use on my 50's Bears though... 12 strand B50.  Go figure.  They seem to shoot great with the B50.  If I wasn't happy with shooting B50 on 'em, I wouldn't.

If you want to try something in between the two, get a quality linen string.  Stretches less than dacron and more than the low-stretch materials.

[30coupe]

I have an old Mahaska longbow (non-fast flight) that I have an 8 strand D97 string on. I padded the loops with B50 to 16 strands then served it with yarn. It made it a completely different bow...no more hand shock. I don't see how 8 strands of D97 is going to chew through all that to get to my bow, much less wear the tips through.

Granted, I don't shoot that one much since I got the 52# Kanati, but I sure wouldn't be afraid to.

I've got an old, very ugly, Black Bear that I planned to use for bow fishing. Maybe I'll make up a padded skinny string for that and see what happens. I won't be out much as I got it cheap on the auction site anyway. I'll bet I wear out before the bow does if I make up the same type of string I did for the Mahaska.

I'm not telling anyone to do this to their bows. That is something each will have to decide, but I'd just like to know myself.

[George D. Stout]

Well let me say this, as a B-50 proponent, I have been using a 450 string from a fellow Tradganger now for several weeks and many hundred shots on a 67 Shakespeare Necedah.  It's 8 strands with padded loops, and it made a big difference in vibration.
It also gave me about 8 yards longer for a point-on with my anchor.

I chose to give it a try since I don't have a lot invested in the Necedah, and we can talk for years and not discover anything.  So I now have approximately 500 to 600 shots through this string  and have seen more good than bad.   I monitor the tips after each session, and have noticed no difference in the wear around the loop area.

With this string, which I'm told is basically a no-stretch, the bow is easy in the hand on release, and just a tad noiser than the thicker B50.  

I would never suggest putting it on a priceless bow, that's why I'm giving it a good go.  So far I've seen more benefits than drawbacks, and I'm not so sure the string is any harder on the bow than one that does extend the vibration after the arrow leaves the string.  We will see, of course, but so far, so good.  I know it's making my 45 pound Shakespeare shoot like a bow that's about 7 or 8 pounds heavier.

[30coupe]

That's just what I had in mind to do George. Keep us posted. I'll do the same when I get one made for the Black Bear. My fingers are a little stiff tonight...too many shots with the Kanati today.  

[Bear]

So maybe I wont abort just yet.

bentpole,
We're talking about heavily padded loops. It cant possibly have the piano wire effect.

Jeremy,
I agree, theres nothing "only" about 10 fps, especially when talking about low poundage bows. It's a big gain.

The only experienced words I ever hear on this subject say that it works. I've yet to hear a nay-sayer say "I tried it and it cut my tips". It's always based on old beliefs rather than experience.

Can anyone comment who has actually put a well padded FF or D97 string on an old Bear and had negative effects???

[Bear]

Oh, and Jeremy,

I also agree about the nice tight feeling of low-stretch. It would be worth that alone.

[George D. Stout]

Bear,  no shame in wanting to protect the old Bear bows...there are only so many to go around.  I chose the Shakespeare since it had two piece overlays and I smoothed the string nock area with sand paper before using the low-stretch.   I think the padded loops will negate a lot of that cutting effect. As far as excessive stress from not stretching?  I'm not as convinced as I thought I was on that.  It makes sense that the bow would not be receiving as much with the low-stretch because more is imparted into the arrow.

Now you know that I have been a hard sell on this stuff, and was one who always hollered about not using it on old bows.  Fact is, I never tried it to see if it is fact or BS.  So right now I'm serving as a guinea pig of sorts with the old recurve.  Still, we won't be getting any quick answers since only time will tell the whole story.
I am (so far) confident that with the padded loops, and pre-addressing the tip area, the worse effect is taken care of, and further shooting will show whether that is true or false.

There are a few guys out there who have been shooting modern strings on their old bows for a long time and they will attest to its worth.  I haven't had the nerve to try it on any old Bear Kodiaks.  I also know a lot of old bows went through many a dry fire and still survived for decades, so it will take someone "taking a chance" to see what the outcome is.  I shot another four dozen arrows yesterday from the Necedah.

[James Wrenn]

George I just rebuilt the overlays on a Necedah for a freind.He was scared to shoot good strings with the only overlays.After seeing how well the glue was holding up wheh getting them off if it had been my bow I would not have went through the trouble.It is very doubtfull you will ever have trouble with yours.I only shoot 6 strands on my wood bows and have never seen an issue.With built up loops I would not worry about any recurve that was in good shape that had any overlays at all. jmo

[Bear]

My Kodiak has overlays. With padding I'm really not worried about the tips. But what about the effect on limb vibration? Could it cause delamination?

[McK]

Bear,
 Here is my experience for what its worth.  About seven years ago I decided to try a ff type string (450+) on a 45# bear Polar that I draw 30". I have many other bows and was willing to take a chance.  I have shot many thousands of arrows since with no apparent damage to the bow.
   Why do it?  Well, it does shoot about 6fps faster with 500gr. arrows, ( about like a 4# heavier bow) the brace ht doesnt need adjusting even in 100 degree heat, the string has been on the bow for seven years and I would estimate 10,000 shots or more. I suspect I would have gone through 8 or 10 dacron strings with this usage. I figured if I ever dry fired the bow it would be ruined, but I have had a broken nock dry fire several years ago with no damage.  The bow is not noisy.  I have used ff type strings on several similar wt. Bears since with no problems.  On some bows the ff type strings were noisier and if this was the case I switched back to dacron.
   This is just my experience and I am not recommending you use ff especially if this is a bow you hold dear.  In my case however the old Polar (1962) went from being another bow that hung on the shelf to my everyday/stump shooter/3D bow.
  I always have additional strands in the loops to bring the diameter of the loops up to 15 strand dacron dimensions.
.........McK