delaminating bows question

[DTS]

Martin,PSE. Two bows two delaminations in the heat. PSE honored their waranty, Martin did not.  I am thinking of going to a composit bow so I don't have to worry about delamination in the heat.  While hunting this is always on my mind.  I understand heat and bow stress when strung but these delaminations were unreasonable. Do composit bows react in heat?  Any advice is appeciated.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Hrm, were they left in a vehicle or something?  Unless the bows were subjected to 140+ degrees and strung, you shouldn't be having delams.

And composite is just another word for laminate.  Glue is still used, and heat is still an issue.

[Dave Worden]

You say you "understand heat and bow stress when strung but these delaminations were unreasonable."  You don't say whether these bows were left strung in your hot car.  If so, the delams are "reasonable".  Like Jeff says, heat is the issue.  Even if you left them in the car unstrung, then strung and shot them before they cooled off, the problem is the heat, not the bows.  Like Jeff, I'm a little confused by your reference to composite bows.  If your bows had "glass" in them, they were composite bows in my opinion/definition of composite.

[DTS]

One bow laid on a porch for two hours not in direct sumlight then strung and shot, the other leaned against a ground blind several hours, strung then shot.  I am new to traditional gear and thought the delamination was unreasonable but maybe not.  By composite I think I am talking about what compound bows are made of, fiberglass, graphite, metals, I don't know.  I just don't want to have to worry about a bow coming undone on me while hunting.

[Bill Kissner]

It is really out of the ordinary for a bow to delaminate under those circumstances. I have had my bows out in bright sunlight while being strung for hours and never had a problem. It should not get hot enough in direct sunlight as long as it is in free moving air to do any damage. I would never leave one in a car or blind though as it could very easily get too hot.

[Dave Worden]

Did you send the broken bows to the manaufacturer?  Did they give any hints as to why they delaminated?  Delam caused by manufacturing errors is virtually unheard of.  I suppose it's possible that you are the unluckiest trad archer around, but I wouldn't give up on recurves and long bows based on your experience.  If the cause is other than heat, it's got to be extremely rare.  If it was heat, you now know better.  You do mention wanting to try fiberglass.  Were your bows all wood?  I'd guess that with PSE or Martin, they were fiberglass laminated.  As for metal, both steel and aluminum have been used for trad bows, but neither seemed to make the grade.  I think they just work-hardened over time then broke.  Don't if graphite is used in trad bow limbs or not.  Haven't heard of it, but it does seem to be a likely next step.

[DTS]

Dave, sent both bows back.  Martin said the bow had been stored improperly and I was not the original owner.  PSE balked until the dealer who I bought it from called them. They replaced the limbs with shorter limbs.  Both bows prior to my purchase had been stored in a barn and the other stored in the dealers warehouse.  I think my lack of knowledge cost me.  Our summers are vicious out here and I hunt regardless.  Delamination is always on my mind.  I do not want to worry about it so I thought about purchasing something other than wood and glue.  I was looking for advice or information about other than wood, something that could take the heat like a compound bow.

[Dave Worden]

Dan, you could always try a self-bow!  They certainly won't delaminate.  Back to laminated bows, I suspect the problem was how and where they were stored.  Don't ever store a strung bow where it can get hot.  Don't store a bow standing on end, hot or cold.  They should be horizontal.  I think you should be just fine with another laminated bow if you just take some precautions.  Heat is the biggest problem.  Protect your bow from heat, don't string it immediately after taking it out of of a hot car.  After it's cooled and strung, pull some short draws before going to full draw.  You won't find a trad bow that "will take the heat like a compound" but I'm sure you'll find that with a little care, a trad bow will work just fine for you.  There are a lot of trad shooters out there in Texas, even some fine bowyers (Mike (Wingnut)and Jason Westvang come to mind) in Texas.  They should have some good advice for you.

[DarkeGreen]

Well, now you know who to do business with. That has to be worth something. When I find a manufacture willing to go the extra mile I stick with them. I advoid those who appear not to care about their customers. They forget unhappy customers tell 20 people, or in this case 12,000. Based on this information I'd probably not do business with Martn, but that's just me.  

[DTS]

Thanks ya'all, I am learning daily, even at 44yrs. Martin bows employees were very polite but firm in their stance.  At first they offered me a bow at half price then upper levels nixed that.  Thanks for the names of these Texas folks, I will give them a call.  Live and learn.  Thanks DT

[Mohillbilly]

Just a question about delamination.  If you cook your bow at a lower temp will it also delaminate at a lower temp?  Just wondering what epoxy the above companies use and if they use higher or lower cooking/curing temps.  

Bret

[DTS]

Dave, what exactly is a self bow?

[Big Dave]

DTS:
Where in Tx. are you I'm in San Angelo. Ive never had a bow delam. but I never leave them in a hot car etc.I think it was the way it was stored. A self bow is a bow carved out of one piece of wood though sometimes backed with diff. materials.My 2 cents Good luck

[DTS]

Big Dave I live 1/2 way between Waco and Stephenville off Hwy 6.  Mike, martin bows would not honor the waranty  because of the second hand bow and said the name of the guy I bought it from was not the original owner.  PSE bow I bought from an archery shop new in the box. Turns out the bow had been sitting in his storage for a couple years according to PSE.  Big Dave what kind of wood do you make a self bow out of, I might try this, sounds like fun.

[Dave Worden]

Having not made a self-bow since I was about 8 (and I'm sure that won't count), I can't tell you much about how to make one.  Like Big Dave says, they're made from one solid piece of wood.  Osage orange (hedge, bodark, all the same thing) is one of the best woods.  I think I've heard white oak is good.  Hickory is good.  If you're interested in making one, why not start a thread here asking for info?  There are a ton of people on here that can help you.

[mbbushman]

I really don't think storing a bow in a vehicle is all that dangerous. My Caribows have been kept in my truck for months on end, strung up, and in temps from 105 F to -40 F. When I want to shoot I grab them and use them regardless of temp. I have personally never had a problem. The one recurve has been stored and shot like this for 9 years now.