Carbon Arrow 2nd's

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

A friend of mine recently bought two-dozen discount shafts on that big online auction place we all know. They were listed as being premium shafts, but simply mislabeled by the manufacturer.

He was told what he was buying were premium 300 spine shafts that normally retail at $109.99/dozen. He bought two dozen at $74.99 each. After setting up a dozen of them, that's when his frustration started. He couldn't get them to fly even close to consistently.

A week ago I dug out some old Easton Carbon Evolution 300 camo shafts and set a few up for him to shoot, including one bare shaft. They flew great.  

He stopped by last night to return my arrows and brought all two-dozen of his discount shafts for me to check on my spine tester. The auction ad said they should have spined at .275. The results were as I suspected: they varied from .320 to .400. What he basically had were a mismatch of three different spine classes. I didn't bother to put them on a grain scale, but I could tell just by handling them that they weren't even remotely consistent.

No wonder he couldn’t get them to fly straight. In real world terms, his shafts varied about 20# in spine weight. Imagine buying two dozen of what you thought were 90-95’s, and what you got were 65-85’s.

For grins, I grabbed an unused dozen of cheap Beman ICS Venture 300 shafts I bought for $40. They all came in between .290 and .295: a .005 spine variance, as opposed to .080 on his two-dozen.

Unfortunately, my friend is not alone. I’ve heard more than a few similar stories about carbon shaft 2nd not being as advertised. A lot of people are trying to save money these days, and buying carbon shaft 2nd’s is becoming popular. There’s nothing wrong with trying to cut costs, but sometimes what you end up with is junk. Whether the blame lies with dealers or manufacturers I do not know. If you’re going to buy 2nd’s, please make sure you’re purchasing from a reputable dealer and ask him/her to hand spine and weigh each shaft (and bundle them in a matched set) before you hand over your cash. That way, at least you know what you’re buying.

[George D. Stout]

Scoundrels are everywhere, and not limited to the "big online auction place."   Unfortunately, they are in the shop down the road as well.  

What would really be nice is for someone to have a place where various shafts could be tested for quality control.  I've heard horror stories of first line quality shafts spining differently as you rotate the shaft.  That's just slipshod manufacturing.  And frankly...55/75 spines are an indication that manufacturers aren't ready to fine down their spine ranges better.

I would certainly want to know that the next dozen shafts I buy are identical to the first.  I have that with aluminum.

[James Wrenn]

I look at buy seconds on arrows like I do the guy with a super bass fishing reel picking up off brand line on a clearance table at Walmart.:)Both skimp on the most important part of the whole deal.    

You don't have to spend lots of money on arrows to get quality.I shoot $45 a dozen bemans but they are consistant and not seconds.  

[hunt it]

Over the last year I have spent at least a Thousand $$$ buying/trying new arrows in the search for the perfect carbon shaft. I shoot bows in the 65 to 75 pound range.

The ultra skinny carbons (MFX and Axis) have not done much for me with one new shaft blowing apart on release to the knocks breaking on release and on impact (replacement knocks all broke as well). These skinny shafts are not forgiving when bows of different weights in the above range are used. The shaft will fly good out of 75# but bad out of 68#, not much room for variation. I've given up on these skinny shafts period.

The high FOC Grizzly sticks have performed very well and lend themselves to perform out of wider variations in poundage. I don't think you can beat them if they fly good for you. I have had no issues tuning these to fly out of 5 different bows.

Last but not least the GT Blemished shafts available at reduced $$$. I have just made up 6 dozen of these for an upcoming Australian hunt. Each and every shaft was weighed and checked for spine (55/75). My experience is that these were all very close in weight and spine.

I had heard so many Grizzly stick horrors that it kept me away for a few years. I can say now that I  have had no issues with the spine of these shafts being consistent and there was no tuning problems at all.

As far as arrow deals go there is no better deal (my opinion of course)out there than the GT Blems for your $$$. No, they are not Grizzly sticks but when you can buy 4 1/2 doz of one for same cost as one doz Grizzly's it's hard to beat. For general flinging and stump shoot and hunting all but the largest/toughest game they will do the average person just fine.

I'm not arguing with Jason's statement just want others to know that not all deals are bad ones.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by hunt it:


I'm not arguing with Jason's statement just want others to know that not all deals are bad ones.

I completely understand. Some dealers check beforehand to make sure what they sell is exactly what they describe. Unfortunately, not everyone does that. But when we find a good dealer who takes the time to hand check his/her 2nd, we can often find some great deals.

Kelly Peterson used to sell Sitka Spruce 2nd's. He hand weighed, spined and matched all of them and told you exactly what they were. Out of the hundreds I bought, I never found a bad shaft. Ironicaly, his 2nd's were often better than other dealer's premiums, and less than half the price. I wish he was still in business.

[Russ Clagett]

I used to get the gt 55/75's blems from sipsey river, and they were always great. I dont know if they still sell them now that someone else has it, or what the price is.

They were a good deal then though, and I never had any problems with them.

[hunt it]

Russ,

Sipsey River is now Big Jim's Bow Company. Jim is a sponsor here. That is where I purchased all of the above mentioned GT Blems. Jim's a great guy and I highly recommend him! I have heard of other manufactures dumping misslabeled shafts as blems but this has not been my experience with GT Blems. A GT blem is a cosmetic flaw in the finish as far as I can see.

[KSdan]

I also got the GT trad blems from formerly Sipsey. I hope Big Jim carries the same product and service.  Though I can not spine check them, the wt. and consistent shooting seem excellent. Very pleased.

[pseman]

I was tempted to purchase a dozen of those shafts recently but my intuition told me the deal was too good to be true. I guess it was.

[koger]

Its a good deal, have bought several dozen for me and  my friends from big Jims, no problems whatsoever! As a side note,  a buddy recently bought a dozen GT 35/55'  from a local Pro Shop,and we fletched them up and were shooting great out of his #46 BW I sold him 9 out of 12 were. These 3 bad ones were shooting about8 inches high and left, different spine, too strong. All I can say is from Sipsey River and Big Jims I have yet to have a single problem with their GT blems or the Vapors, have bought Dozens and Dozens for myself, buddies and 4H kids. Sam

[vermonster13]

Big Jims are fine. The one's Jason speaks of can be great or junk, a definite crap shoot.

[hunt it]

Koger,

I think the possibility of miss labeling exists in all shaft production. I think if you sent the three heavy spinned shafts back to GT they would probably send you a doz replacements. They did that for a friend of mine.

[Stone Knife]

I bought my GT blems from Big Jim as well, they fly as good or better than any arrow I have bought at full price. I'm not certain how the shaft you bought from another source ended up being junkers, but I'll tell you that Big Jim will do you right.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Update:

I just got off the phone with my friend who bought the discount shafts. He called the dealer to tell them about the mismatch in spines and eventually came to a resolution, but not before being called a variety of unpleasant things. Apparently the rep he spoke to was named “I Don’t Have Time For This Crap.” At least, that’s what the guy kept saying over and over again.

At the end of the conversation, my friend was told he’d get a refund. At least he won’t be out any money (hopefully), but it’s absurd that people should get an earful of nonsense from a dealer who advertises gold and sells garbage.

Buyer beware, I suppose.