Fishtailing Arrow

[Black Gold]

I just got my new dozen of Carbon Express Heritage 350 arrows in. (12 grains per inch)  They are cut to 27".  (I have a 25" draw length)  
I am shooting 100 grain field points due to the broadheads I shoot (Atom Broadheads) only come in 100 grain.  I currently am shooting them out of my Martin Hatfield Recurve that is 62# @ 28" and they are fishtailing right then left at 15 yards.  Still hitting ok though...  
I should have my new longbow in the next 2 weeks that will be 75# @ 28".  Is there any way to stop the fishtail in my Matin without adding a heavier point?
Will my longbow with the higher draw weight help correct the problem?

[Ontario Longbow]

Hi Cody,, It sounds like you are going through the same thing that most of us do. There is a bit of a learning curve when you switch to carbons, but once you figure out your magic formula nothing will shoot better for you.  I believe that the 350's will be way to stiff @ 27" for either bow without adding significant weight to the front end. You could opt for 100g brass inserts to keep using your 100g broadheads but even at that it might not be enough. You may have to drop down to the 250's or even 150's to keep your arrow length at 27". I draw 26.5" out of my Widow and shoot 28" 250's with 225g's up front and 26" out of my Hill and shoot 150's with a 50g brass insert and 225g field point and broadheads. I hope this helps,, I would also recommend trying the Adcock tuning method,, That will tell you how much weight up front you need and how long the arrows should be, I have it on a word document, P.M me with your e-mail and I will send it to you,, All the best,,Frank

[JRY309]

350's are the stiffest of the Carbon Express Heritage arrow lineup.Getting them to fly right may not be possible not matter how much weight you add up front.Carbon arrows react and recover quicker and differently than wood or aluminum.Say with Carbon Express you have 150,250 and 350 that is three basic spines to choose from.You say you have a 25" draw so you are pulling around 53# roughly.You would be better off with 150's.With three basic spines,pick one that is close then fine tune the spine by trimming the length or adding weight up front whether it is point weight or weight behind the inserts or a heavier insert.Start with a full length shaft and tune from there,but 350's cut to 27" will probably spine out at over 100# or some where around there.They may or may not fly good out of a heavier longbow you mentioned,there are alot of varibles.How the riser is cut,string type,brace height all effect spine.Try shooting them bare and see how they fly and group with some fletched arrows they are most likely way too stiff.

[Recurve50LBS]

I had a simmilar problem a couple years ago shooting 2016's with 100 gr field points. I solved the fishtailing by changing from 5" parabolic feathers to 5 1/2" shield cut feathers. Best of luck.
Larry

[30coupe]

I agree with the others, your arrows are way too stiff. I shoot 29" 4560 Carbon Express Terminator Hunters out of my 55# longbow. I add 100 gr. inserts and 125 gr. heads and draw 28". They shoot like darts out of my longbow, but fishtail like crazy out of my 45# recurve.

Cut to 27" you have added a lot of spine on top of the already stiff arrows. They might work out of a center shot bow, but it would have to be pretty stout. At 25" draw you will be getting about 66# out of your longbow, which is probably not cut to center. I would be shocked if your arrows don't still fishtail.

[strick9]

Before switching arrows, I would follow Ontarios advice and try to get point weight up to at least 250 grn, maybe try a 100 grn insert and a 140-160 grn fp, you can always change to a 150 grn wensel woodsman or similar weighted broadhead. With the 75 lb bow you may have good flight with this set up...

[Shawn Leonard]

Nope do not follow Ontarios advice, those arrows are way too stiff no matter what. You may get away with the 150s but cut to 27"s you would need at least 275 grains up front out of that bow. I can give you an example. I am shooting a 54# Rivers edge Arroyo a very high oerformance recurve That is at my 28.5" draw and I am shooting a 150 cut to 29.5"s and 175 grains up front. If I were to cut the arrow just 1" to 28.5"s I would need to add around 40 grain to my point weight for good flight. Trust me I do this a lot and have shot most carbons out there and probably have owned 70 diffrent bows in the last 6-7 years. If I were you I would start with the 150 at 29"s and 225 up front and see where ya are. If ya cut it .5" at a time and add weight ya may get them to work. I believe CX makes a kids arrow tthat a lot of guy are shooting out of 50-53# bows with shorter draw lengths. Shawn

[Black Gold]

Thanks for all the replies.

If they are hitting well on the target...how much does fishtailing effect overall accuracy???

[Orion]

If your bow is centershot, you should be able to shoot just about anything out of it, as long as it's overspined.  Has your brace height dropped?  Might consider raising it.  Also, make certain you're getting a clean release with back tension that pulls your hand backward at the release.  Any amount of plucking can cause an arrow to fish tail.

[Skinner]

Cody,

The problem of fish-tailing comes into play with penetration.  If your arrow is moving side to side when it hits your animal, you are wasting alot of energy (side motion).  An arrow that leaves the bow fairly straight, will deliver all of it's energy straight forward. (better penetration)  This is why trad archers spend alot of time 'bare shafting".   Skinner.

[Black Gold]

Thanks...ya'll have been great help!

I ordered a dozen 250's cut to 28"....will try these and then see how the 350's do in the 75# long bow...Thanks again!

[Shawn Leonard]

Those 250s will be stiff, I am positive of that. have all the guys responded shot these shafts out of there bows? Really, ya should not give advice on specific carbons unless you have shot them, as they are all different animals. If ya shoot the 250s please use 300 grains or so up front ecsp. cut to 28"s. Any arrow will shoot fairly accurately, because your brain adjust after a few shots, but to get true arrow flight is another thing. Maybe I am anal but I see lots of bad arrow from guys who seem thrilled with it. Shawn

[Shawn Leonard]

Ontario mentions the 250s but not the #age at 26.5"s. I would say it has to be near 58#s or so at that draw to shoot those 250s with that point weight. Best of luck! Shawn

[Black Gold]

Got my dozen 250's cut at 28"...Put 190 gr field points on them and they shoot like a beauty!
Will be shooting the Simmons 190 gr 2 blade broadheads....THANKS for all the help!

[Littlefeather]

Cody, I got the package today. Thanks a million! I have a huge boar I'm going to try the product on. CK