MIO DEEP WOODS NO DEER

[LONGBOWSFOX]

WOW THE DEER IN ALL THAT STATE AND FED WOODS UP BY MIO WERE  FEW AND HUNTERS WERE FEW TOO.  MAN THAT ALOT OF WOODS AND SWAMPS AND BIG HILLS UP THAT WAY. NO BAITING IS JOKE ....MORE BAIT FOR SALE THAN I EVER SAW GUN SHOP SIGN ON M-33 NORTH BIG YELLOW SIGN SAID  " DNR SUCKS " AND SELLING BAIT BY TRUCK LOAD WITH LOADER.    SAW MOST DEER AT JUST ABOUT DARK IN HAY FIELDS AND FARM GROUND.   DID I BAIT ? NO I DIDN'T ...BUT THEN AGAIN NO DEER . WE HUNT IN ABOUT A 20 MILE SECTION .  

[Uncle Buck]

I used to hunt that area in the 80's and 90's (north of Lupton SE of Mio) when Baiting was legal and rampant. The trick then was to get back deep into the woods and hunt the acorns. that might still work. the baiters usaualy didnt get far from the road. for those not familiar with the area and how baiting is practiced there it was not uncommon to see a bait pile consisting of a half ton or more of carrots or sugar beets. the aroma of rotting sugar beets has to be experienced to appreciate how bad it is.

[Dave Bulla]

Well, that just sounds like a good law to me if it stops that huge scale baiting.  Now, I'm not from there and haven't hunted there so I'm just armchair quarterbacking but I don't much care for the idea of baiting in general.  As for not enough hunters, I'm guessing that there are normally deer drives going on or something that gets the deer moving?  Heck, too few hunters are normally a good thing.  Hunting undisturbed deer is usually one of the key factors if you talk to guys who regularly take big bucks about anywhere in the country.  A 20 square mile section is a big chunk of woods though!

Didn't you all up there in Michigan have a big deal with disease problems in recent years?  I've always heard that feeders are one of the primary methods of disease transfer for some of the diseases.  Something about the mucous from their mouth and nose getting in the feed and other deer are right there eating from the same trough.  Kinda like a couple snot nosed kindergarten kids sharing a lolly pop when one has a cold.

Honestly, I think it would be interesting to hunt big woods deer.  I'm guessing it would take a whole nuther set of skills.  You'd have to read terrain, be aware of logging changes, swamps, contours, non man made food sources like browse and mast and when they were available.  If densities are low, it could certainly make for a lot of days with no action but if you pull it off, it'd be a great feeling.  I guess that's part of why so many guys want to bait though, it's just another shortcut around learning to hunt difficult areas.  To me, the hardest part of hunting big timber is the fact that deer seem able to bed almost anywhere, feed almost anywhere, and wander almost anywhere.  Especially if there is ample water and a good mast crop.  It's the skill of finding the little nuances that makes the difference.  The ridge with a saddle that leads to a creek, the spot where 3 or 4 ridges all come together in a draw, the little bit of high ground in the swamp, the small patch of white oaks that don't appear to be any different but that for some reason the deer seem to be hitting harder than others.  It's like trad bowhunting in general.  Harder than other methods, takes more effort and time to master but is more personally rewarding in the end.

And, just to be clear, I don't mean to include you into the same group as guys who bait by the truckload, road hunt or do whatever else they can to fill their tag easily.  It sounds like you stuck hard by your personal ethics and came up empty.  Kudos to ya and I understand if you are looking around at other guys who did get their deer by baiting and feel a little put out right now.  It'll come back to you in the end in a good way I bet.  

By the way, I'm all for upping your odds through strategy but I prefer the idea of hunting natural food sources rather than bait piles.  I guess it's a fine line and many don't see the difference between a food plot and a pile of corn or sugar beets but to me there is a difference.  Just my opinion.

[Steve O]

Dave,

You have no idea...I'm embarrassed to say I am from Michigan.  Laws don't do any good here, the "hunters" know no other way to do it other than sitting over a bait pile and it makes it VERY difficult for those of us without access to any private land in southern Michigan to hunt the legal way.  I've pretty much given up deer hunting in Michigan and travel all over the country to wonder public and private land spots that have not been soiled (we need a big steaming "pile" symbol to insert here!)like Michigan.

As to all the CWD/TB; I believe it was all BS dreamed up by our wonderful DNR to eliminate the deer herd so the state would not get sued by the insurance companies and farm bureau because of all the car/deer collisions and crop damage.

The late 90s and early 2000s saw unlimeted doe permits and the Michigan hunter was only to glad to mow down everything and anything.  The only appreciable deer herd we have left is in the southern 1/3 of the lower peninsula where it is entirely private land and in the extreme southern tip of the western UP where again, large blocks of private land enable the landowners to manage the deer not the DNR (which does not get to do things scientifially as biologists...they are controlled by the governor and her "Natural Resourse Commision). It is the biggest load of BS I have ever seen   :mad:

[WESTBROOK]

What Steve said!

Without a bait pile most hunters dont have a clue as to how to kill a deer.

Eric

[**DONOTDELETE**]

20 years ago Mio  was overrun with deer....the buck to doe ratio must have been 30:1

Steve is right about the tough hunting in Michigan....our bijillion acres of state land are over run with quadrunners and rifle hunters.

Thank God for that extreme southern tip of the western UP....aka ShrewHaven  

[Bonebuster]

I live about twenty minutes from the places being discussed.

The sad part is what the hunting there COULD be.

I remember it well.

I would feel as if I was doing harm to the deer there if I killed even ONE now.

When the snow cover is deep, the deer tracks in the snow tell the story. Most of the area has section roads giving you about a mile of unbroken cover. A hunter can sometimes cross those sections and not se ANY deer tracks, and we are talking good winter cover. The only tracks you`ll find are `yotes...looking for the last deer.

I miss the days I could hunt there and not feel bad for killing a deer.

I is sad to see runways that are no longer travelled by deer, and hear our DNR continue to talk of the overpopulated whitetail herd. I wonder if our biologists even go outside.

[Yellow Dog]

Over the last 30 years I've had the good fortune to hunt some very good land of friends and relatives that abut the Shiawassee NWR refuge here in mid Michigan with very good success, no bait. Last year I had my first oportunity to hunt Iowa. Hats off to that fine state. Being my first out of state hunt we went thru an outfitter on a semi guided package. The land we were hunting was next to about 1500 acres of state land that, in the week we were there, we saw a total of one vehicle in the parking areas. My next trip to Iowa, in two years if things go well, will be a DIY on public land. With the whitetail management here in Michigan, as Steve said, if your a public land hunter or don't have access to a big piece of property your pretty much out of luck. I've never gun hunted but I've taken a drive around Marion Springs on opening day of gun season and let's just say you have to see it to believe it!

[WESTBROOK]

"..whitetail management here in Michigan.."

I think that qualifies as one of those oxymorons..

[BUCK-EYE]

My Dad has a place east of Mio(McKinley). It was great back in the 80`s and early 90`s. We would go up mid Sept. and put in a weekend of scouting and hanging stands. Had a great time. Seen alot of deer, now if you see a track, a rub, or a scrape it`s like you have hit the lotto. I dont know how long it will take to get back to were things used to be or if it ever will. We go up now, just to go and have a good time if anybody see`s a deer it`s a bonus. It`s still nice to get out in the woods. I can only hope for the future things will change. Only time will tell  

[frank bullitt]

Well, it doesn't take an engineer or educated person to figure this out! Most states in the midwest will soon follow!

Back in the late '80s, at our state bowhunter meeting, I mentioned the fact that the insurance companies and legislation would soon seek a severve reduction in the herd.

I was just a young, late 20's something member. I stated that my local rep was also an insurance agent, no response.

In the years following, Farm Bureau, tried to push a law allowing an all arms, Sept. to Jan. slaughter!

I have seen the years as a child, no deer, the flourishment of the herd to.... what will my children see?

[Nate Fikkert]

Sounds like Wisconsin.

Nathan

[LONGBOWSFOX]

I SHOOT THE WINTER INDOOR ARCHERY LEAGUE WITH AN INSURANCE MAN THAT HAS BEEN TO MEETINGS WITH DNR AND YES    ITS THE INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT SAID  68,000 DEER CAR CRASHES LAST YEAR TOOO MANY DEER KEEP KILLING SO THEN $$$$ DON'T GET SPENT FIXING ALL THOSE CARS AND PEOPLE UP. AND THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WON'T LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUY THE DNR WILL.WELL  I'VE UP THERE THE WHOLE BOW SEASON AND LIKE I SAID DEER WERE FEW.    

[T Folts]

I spent my summers and Deer season from the mid 70s to the early 80s in MicKinley (MIO) my brother still lives in MIO and the deer herd was strong. I went up there this year for the 1st time in 20 years and there still are alot of hunters and not much for the deer. I did see one buck and about 8 doe for three days but it sure wasnt what I remember. Also they cut alot of roads in south of the power lines and just ruined any chances of packing off the beatten path to get away from people. The DNR have ruined it up there.  :mad:

um, what does "MIO" stand for? I get that it's the UP, but please answer my stupid question????

[Uncle Buck]

Mio is the name of a small town in the northern lower penninsula.

[oldtimerbow]

I have a cabin in between Grayling and Mio.The last few years the numbers have been way down.In two weeks of hunting the bow and gun season I can almost count the number of deer seen on one hand with the only buck seen was a small spike that I let walk.We can only hope that the population comes back some anyway.

[bornagainbowhunter]

In Arkansas most bowhunters think the Game and Fish Comission need to leave the deer and turkeys alone, and try to manage the skunk, armadillo, opossum, and snake population.  Reason being, whatever they manage, we seem to have none of.  Our GFC has actually traded turkeys for rattle snakes.  What kind of moron makes a trade like that.  Now, we dont even have a fall turkey season becuase there are no turkeys.    :mad:    :mad:    :mad:

[Drew]

It's a problem and you can't "just" blame the DNR..we hunters/landowners/farmers need to take our share of the blame.

The problem is you can't please everyone, some people want to see a ton of deer, some want just big bucks, and others are just meat hunters.

We have farmers who blame the wrong animals for crop damage (ie: turkeys and deer instead of raccoons) so more tags are handed out.

You have in increase in access due to people (including hunters) demanding more access (logging, ATV trails, hiking, horses, bikes, utilities so on)

You have a serious decline in habitat in Southern MI, so the deer just don't have room.

You have a lack of funding in the State government and some mismanaging of the funding, so deer counts are off, and some just think selling MORE tags adds revenue that solves the problem....most hunters won't stand for an increase in tag price, and trust me our resident tags are cheap. What about our generous season lengths?

We've had some tough long late winters, reintroduced top predators..

Baiting was a standard for years, introduction of CWD and increases in car deer accidents.

You have an evolving society that wants immediate results, and we continue to advance hunting technology for quicker results.

So what do you want in the MI deer herd, and who decides?

I'm seeing a different effect in my area, as the QDM has been in effect for 4-5 years now, the doe to buck ratio has been reduced. But now guys are seeing less deer numbers, fewer bucks but they're bigger and their still not happy!

Funny you guys that travel to the West end of the UP, guess you don't talk to locals and hear the endless complaints of wolves.

So who's ready to run the DNR, and impose a tag price increase, antler restrictions or deer sex restrictions, tag number reductions, shorter seasons, and throw out some closed access, and set aside more public/federal/state land? (oh with less revenue, and a reduced budget)
 

When we solve that issue(s) can we figure out a plan to stop letting good vension rot on the roadsides while people are going without food?

Thanks for the info.