rope ascenders for tree stand access?

[boznarras]

I am thinking about using some mountaineering equipment to get into trees, and wonder if anyone here has tried this.
I was thinking of putting up a fixed rope, tied off to a stout limb above and something to hold it down below, and going up using two ascenders (like Jumars, or I have Clogs) with a chest and sit harness. I have used regular twisted 1/2 or 5/8 inch nylon rope for fixed lines like this when painting up high or working on roofs, when I did not want to mess up a climbing rope.
Standard mountaineering/spelunking climbing rig: put runner loops to stand in on the ascenders, plus runners clipped into the harness. Walk them up the rope. Use this to get up to a fixed stand, and stay clipped in to the rope, or set up another anchor to clip to while hunting. Could leave the rope in place when I leave, not too expensive to worry about.
I would show up with the harness and ascenders, plus a light haul line for my pack and bow, and be ready to scoot up the rope.
Anybody else tried this? I can't see why it would not work, once I got it set up. Like all climbing, you have to be careful, but seems like it could work.

[VTer]

I've looked at that stuff in tree climbing catalogs. Pretty pricey stuff. But I guess that wouldn't get stolen if you take them with you. I think it would amp up the sweat/smell factor as well.

[J-dog]

Are you looking for something that will keep you from falling on the way up or just a neat way of getting into stand? A fixed line and prussik work great for safety aspect. Not sure about ascenders and all but you most assuredly are more used to that equipment than myself by the sounds of it!!!

I use fixed lines and prussiks but would like to see pics of your rig is you set one up - might be a neat trick!

J

[xtrema312]

I keep my stick ladders out and just pack a light stand.  I get my ladders for about $35 on sale in the winter.  I camo them up real good, and they are not easy to spot in most places.  I have been thinking about adding fixed lines and prussiks for safety.  They want $40 or something like that at Cabela for a 30' line set.  I have been wanting to check out and see what you can get the same thing for if you buy say 200'.  Any idea?  Sounds like you know your way around this stuff to some extent.

[BobCo 1965]

I've been using an ascender for about five years now and would not go back to anything else. I believe it is much more reliable then a knot. Personally, I still use a regular style five point harness and attach the ascender between the normal back position strap with a rope. I leave prehung ropes in trees and carry the ascender with me. I tie the prehung rope to the tree about two feet above my normal height and while I am in the tree hunting, I just leave the ascender in place.

I am safe from the time my feet leave the ground.

This setup is not expensive at all. Ascenders can be purchased from construction supply stores for about $25 (regular steel). Mine was about $50, but it is a little lighter (aluminm) for rock climbers.

[boznarras]

Seems like many should consider using a fixed line for security while climbing steps. A fixed line and an ascender, or at least a prussik loop would be easy to justify. The ascenders are much more secure than a prussik, especially on wet or icy rope. They have little teeth that bite the surface of the line. Prussiks tend to slide a little before they seize up, and slide a lot on a slick rope, but they are better than nothing, and you can make them yourself.

I was thinking here of not using the steps at all, but instead, climbing the rope itself, plus grabbing the occasional limb as you get to them.
I could buy the rope in bulk. Cut and attach the line as needed to each tree I plan to use, probably a 30 ft piece would allow for knots at top and bottom. You would need to secure the bottom just so the rope doesn't just lift up when you are trying to slide the ascender up. Otherwise it is a pain, you often have to reach down and hold the rope below the ascender as you slide the ascender up. I suppose you could just tie it to your pack to weight the rope and then use the rope to haul up your pack, but then the pack is in the way/underfoot at the bottom. I'd hate to step on my arrows or bow.
I already have the mountaineering stuff from doing climbing on mountains/glaciers, but don't own any steps, so this is what got me to thinking this way.
With two ascenders, you can slide one while standing on the other, and go up a rope step by step. Loops of web from the ascenders (runners) give your foot a stirrup to stand in, so you can unweight the other ascender and move it up. This way you use your legs to climb, and your arms just to reposition the ascenders and guide you around things in the way.You are always clipped to both ascenders which are always on the rope, and you can add a prussik loop to the rope if you want one more attachment as a back-up, in case you do need to take an ascender off the rope to put it on again above an obstruction.
A dilemma is how to set up the fixed rope in the first place. I guess I could heave a light line with a weighted end across a limb and pull a heavier rope across with that, and tie both ends off to something solid near the ground. Then climb one side of that doubled rope to get up in the tree and set up the fixed line. Would have to improvise on site, of course. (Maybe my fishing arrow could carry the first line over the limb?)
I could come down by reversing the process, standing on one ascender and releasing the grip on the other enough to slide it down without ever taking it off the rope. Just alternate back and forth until I can stand on the ground.
This rope climbing stuff is old hat to spelunkers. There are karst caves near here where they have to do free rope descents/ascents at the entrance of over 100ft. They rappel down on the way in, and climb out with ascenders. Imagine the first guy doing that, into the dark! Put a big knot on the end of the rope so you don't slide off before you want to!!
If you are interested in this stuff, take a look at Freedom of the Hills or some other mountaineering book, or go to a mountaineering/rock climbing shop. Arborists would also be a good source for info, maybe even more directed to trees.

[Zbearclaw]

Sounds like a potential problem if "it" happens.

Also gettin down fast is a safety issue.  I have had trees decide my morning in the stand was the time to come down during a wind storm.

You can't really get out of the way of a falling tree, but sems like a potenial problem to me.

Espcially if a rodent decides to chew your knot twenty feet above, you won't find that out till up.

I'd use an ascender and fixed line as a backup.

Treestand safety is about system redundency, not summer camp climbing.

I love rock climbing and working ropes, but hunting isn't the place in my opinion.

Good luck and stay safe.

[James on laptop]

The last thing I want to do in bowseason is climb a rope to get in the stand.You get to sweating easy enough climbing a ladder.

[lpcjon2]

ok I have rock climbing experience and IMO 1.you have to have a little slack in the main line for a prussic to work properly and it will hold.Ascenders are expensive and you have to keep them clean and it is a mechanical device.All you need to do is keep 3 points of contact when climbing a ladder or a tree.two feet and a hand or two hands and a foot on the ladder rung or tree spikes.Most falls occur when making the transition from steps to the stand platform.make a line 2-feet below your seat with a loop and before you transition to the seat clip into that then if you fall you will be secure.once on the stand clip to the main safety strap dont un clip the first one you will need that for when you leave.Good Luck.

[John Scifres]

Bottom line is it can be done that way.  But, generally, it's more expensive and more work than using tree steps.  I use a fixed rope that attaches to my bottom step and a prussic.  It is very simple to use and I already have some rope from rock climbing in the past.

[glass76]

Do these ascenders make any noise, like a ratchet or any other mechanical noise?

[lpcjon2]

No they dont.

[Sharpend60]

You have to use a kernmantle rope with ascenders. I use them every day at work. They work by grabbing the sheath of the rope. Also get a semi-static line , its much easier to climb and will absorb SOME shock should you fall. Look into a Petzl Tibloc, $16.00, more reliable than a prussic knot and much lighter (a few ounces total!)than an ascender. And for your own safty use climbing rope only, dont compromise there.
Google it.
Easy as could be. The whole set up weighs next to nothing.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Seems like a lot of work if you fairly close to the stand from your truck.  Carrying a ladder in would seem to be quicker and an easier ascent.  I can definately see it if your walking in a half mile or more.

[bicster]

How would you pre-set the rope in the tree?
I also have climbing and river rescue experience and have used a fixed rope with prussic knots and a Tibloc at my tree stands. Please let us know how it works.

[barkrider]

If you want to get fancy you can use the "kroll" chest ascender and a petzl "pantin" (foot acsender) along with a hand ascender.
This technique allows you to go up the line line an inchworm with very little effort since your not holding the slack and your own weight with your arms. This technique allows us to go hundred or more feet on single line without burning out.

A little simpler method and maybe more usefull here would be to use an ascender for your arms tied to a tether back to your harness (one contact point), seconnd going down is another hand ascender tied to a longer tether going down to your foot (a foot peddle) and finally and most important a prusick knot tied back to you harness underneath (second contact point). Your prussick knot should be the first thing you tie on before you go and the last thing you take off on the gorund. the two ascenders are use to go up only, not come down.

--Sharpy dude had a very good point, don't skimp on the line or the hardware... as like a chain... it is only as strong as the weakest link.

climb safe

[BobCo 1965]

Originally posted by bicster:
How would you pre-set the rope in the tree?
I also have climbing and river rescue experience and have used a fixed rope with prussic knots and a Tibloc at my tree stands. Please let us know how it works.

Personally, I do not climb the rope nor have any intention to. I hang my rope while I am installing the stand and use a waist strap such as the ones that linemen use.

[boznarras]

It is interesting how different all our situations are for hunting, one of the strengths of this forum for getting new ideas. I do appreciate all the input, and hope to once again adapt it to use as appropriate.
Being near your truck for a hunt is not the rule here. Often I take a boat ride to another island, and hike in through thick coastal brush and muskeg. No road system, no trails. Not too much concern about breaking a sweat or making noise somewhere along the way, but carrying a ladder would sure help me to do so. Some islands do have roads and a log transfer dock, but these will be heavily used by rifle hunters with 4 wheelers, so I usually avoid them for the solitude elsewhere.
I have never hunted deer from trees, it is not a common technique here. Was just looking at how it could be done with gear that I have on hand. It is common to hunt moose from trees with a rifle, but we are talking really big spruce trees, and being 75 to 100 feet up. No safety gear, just big spikes and boards nailed on the trunk. (with a collection of empty bottles/cans artfully arranged around the base of the tree) I guess I could do that at a lower level, if I packed in spikes and boards. The rope idea seemed less destructive and more portable as to the materials to construct it, and easier to set up multiple sites. Plus it seemed safer with an attached line and harness.Maybe not.
To the question, I think I already mentioned how I thought of presetting the rope by climbing with a double line, then set up the fixed line.
Maybe I will just stay on the ground if it seems too dangerous. I know it isn't for everyone. I'm still giving it consideration, just wondered if anyone else had tried it. Doesn't sound like it, maybe there is a good reason    .
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.
Walt

[xtrema312]

If you are climbing a spruce trees with a lot of limbs then I would think a single fixed line for safety and as a climbing aid would work great.  Climbing a big old straight trunk tree in the woods with only a rope is what I think most of us were thinking.

There is always the option of something like Lone Wolf climbing sticks.  They are aluminum and not all that heavy.

What is the cost for climbing rope in volume?

[lt-m-grow]

Actually I have a friend of mine that does it or at least he does it with mountain climbing gear.  

He is paralyzed from the waist down and loves to bowhunt.  So his Dad goes out before he season, sets the rope and the stand and my friend drives his four wheeler to the base of the tree and pulls himself up.

So yeah it can be done and it will work.