tuning some AD Hammerheads....PICS added

[Looper]

I recently got some AD Hammerheads to use in my Righthand Adcock non-acs longbow.  I left them full length and am using the standard inserts. My brace height is 7-1/4" and my nock point is 1/2".

I started out with some 145 gr points and was having some nice groups out to 30 yards By nice, I mean keeping 6 of 6 on a paper plate at 30 yds.  I know that's not spectacular, but I was pleased.  

I was noticing that I wasn't having perfect flight, so I thought I'd see what this bare-shafting business was all about.  I stepped out to 15 yards and shot a group.  The fletched shafts were in a 4" circle and the unfletched were about 6" right and a few inches low, but were leaning with the nocks way left.  

I lowered my nock point and shot again.  Same thing, but the bare shaft group moved up in line with the fletched.  Just as an experiment I decided to shoot a couple of the bare shafts at 30 yards.

Holy smokes.  They flew terrible.  They were in line up/down, but were a foot or more to the right.  I could clearly see that they were hitting the hay bale way sideways, with the nock way to the left.  

I'd like to get ya'lls thoughts on whether I'm thinking correctly.  

I know I can stiffen them up by trimming them, but I can only cut off an inch at the most.  I don't want to get a broadhead too close to my finger.

I don't want to go lighter on point weight and would prefer to use a 175 or 200 grain head.

So, should I pick the head I'm going to use and trim a 1/4" at the time, or should I go ahead and hack off the 1"?  Is there any way to determine how much the 1" would stiffen up the shafts, like 6" at 20 yds or 3" at 20 yds or 12" at 20yds?  I'd rather skip several 1/4" cuts if they won't come close to what I need.
 
Assuming I'll still be weak, I'll need to build out my side plate.  Is it best to go in 1/16" increments?  I have a seal skin side plate on now.  I was thinking of slipping some shims behind the plate to bring it out, toothpicks, maybe.

This is my first attempt to fine tune a traditional bow, so I'm learning as I go.  In the past, with my old hickory self bows, I'd take a bunch of homemade shafts, add some 6" fletching, pick the best flying ones and go hunting.  Sure, I'd fiddle with nock height and brace height, but I never fooled with point weights. I just used what I had, mostly a bunch of heads my Dad and I made out of some old saw blades.  I sure wish I had some of those now.  I bet there are dozens stuck in the trees in the woods where I grew up.

At any rate, thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and advice.

[azhunter]

Are you shooting right or left handed? Gotta know this for anyone to help. Make adjustments on your point of impact, not on whether nocks are kicking one way or the other.  If your bare shafts are hitting a little low, lower your nock point a tiny amount, maybe start at 1/32nd and shoot more arrows until they are about even with your fletched arrows. Up and down nock adjustment are the same for right and left hand shooters.  If you are shooting right handed and you are hitting to the right of your fletched arrows then your arrows are a little weak. If you are shooting left handed it will be the opposite. You can cut off a tiny amount of your arrow (1/8 inch) or you can use less point weight which will stiffen your arrow.  Do either and make tiny adjustments and then shoot to see what happens. Go here and print out OL Adcock tuning method and it will really help.
 http://www.bowmaker.net/tuning.htm
This is the web address at the bottom of the one I printed out if it is still there. If not do a search and you will find it.

[azhunter]

Forgot to mention that when you are done you may want your bare shafts to be just slightly weak because when you fletch them it will stiffen them just a little. For a right handed shooter hitting just a couple of inches to the right of your fletched arrows.  For a left handed shooter hitting just a few inches to the left of your fletched arrows.

[Looper]

Right handed.

[Hedge Apple]

Read a post on here that bare shaft tuning Hammerheads is tough because of the taper, of course, last year I about drove myself nuts with a nock point setting while bare shafting Hammerheads. I would skip bare shaft tuning and go to OL Adcocks tuning link above, skip down to tuning fletched field point w/fletched broadheads.

[Looper]

I've read O.L.'s tuning advice and methodology.  I guess I was a little too wordy in my questioning.

Basically, I'd like to know if there is a standard or set amount of movement I can get with a 1" tip trim, like 6" at 20yds, or 2' at 20yds.  I don't want to cut off 1/8" at a time and it only move 1/2" or even 2".  I'd end up making at least 6 cuts.  Why waste the time if I don't have to.  On the other hand I don't want to cut off too much.

I don't have a variety of broadheads to try, so I was hoping to be able to dial in the tuning with the field points I have.  I've got some 125 grain broadheads, but I'd like to go with some 175 to 190 gr single bevels.

I guess if it's impossible to bareshaft them, I'll just go ahead a buy the heads I want and tune the arrow to them.  I guess that might not be such a bad idea.  

Now, if there was an archery shop close by that carried anything other than mechanical gizmos.

[Looper]

Ok, so I went out today and shot some broadheads to see where they were hitting.  I stepped back down to 125 gr heads (the only ones I have at the moment).  I shot 3 broadhead and 3 field points at 17 yards.  The second broadhead arrow shaved a feather off the first.  The third right below it by 3 inches.

The first field point hit right between the first two and knocked the broadhead off my first arrow.  The 2nd and 3rd arrows were on either side of the group.  Not enough for me to tell anything.

So I decided to move back to 35 yards and only shoot 1 broadhead.  Here is a pic of that group.  The broadhead shaft is the one missing the nock.  The second arrow knocked the broadhead off that shaft, too.
 

I'm standing to the side in the pic.  The shafts are pointing back to where I was shooting from.

I'm still not getting dart-like arrow flight.  I could still see some oscillation, which I think might be nock point height issues. It looked to be vertical. Maybe 3 inches up and down.

So what do I need to do now?  The broadheads are pretty wide, 1-3/8", but they're vented.  Would that make them not plane as much?  I still want to go to a heavier head.

BTW, how the heck do I get those broadheads out of my target?

[jrchambers]

im kindof going through the same thing, i am shooting ad trads not hammer heads, im shooting a adcock acs i draw 30.5 and between 67-70, i am shooting full lenght with 100 grain brass insert and a 175 head, i get great flight with field points and broadheads and good groups, when i bare shaft group my bares show weak by 3-4 inches average at 18 yards, i want to go up in tip weight, i have tried 220s and 200s and with field points i notice some bad flight, i will start cutting and see if i could go up.

[StickBowManMI]

The best way to get the broadheads out of the target is to carefully push them through and out the other side but be careful that you or someone else is not behind the target during the process.

[Looper]

I was able to get one out that way, but the other turned on me.  I think I was pushing on the blade.  Now it's in the middle of the target.  I think I'll just leave it.

[Hedge Apple]

Oscillation could be your brace height. Can you change the inserts of the broadheads that you currently have? If so, install a heavier bh insert. I don't think the difference between a vented bh at 17 yds would be noticeable. Your 35 yds group looks good to me, but still not the point weight that you desire. Something to think about, when I first switched to AD hammerheads, I shot CX shafts. The nock point had to go up quite a bit. I really didn't put a lot of thought into it since I was bare shafting a new to me shaft. Looking back, I contribute it to the point end diameter difference between the two shafts. As for your broadheads still in the target...I push them thru and unscrew them.(same problem same target) If you get lucky enough to find the hole they are in you might be able to push them out. Switched to JB Weld after losing fifteen bucks worth of brass in Block type targets. Problem went away.

[Hedge Apple]

BH adapters not bh inserts, sorry been a long day.

[Doug S]

I think you otta hunt with that setup right there. The extra 50 gr broadhead isnt gonna do squat when it comes to killing. The arrows already weigh 618ish. Find a good head you like that weighs close to 125. Dead is Dead. Your shootin mighty fine at 35yds. Don't overdo this

[Looper]

The broadheads in the target have come off the adapter.  They were really old (20+ years)and a direct hit on the backside of the blade by a field tip knocked them loose. I tried to push them through, but one got turned sideways.

You may be right about the brace height.  I'll check tomorrow.  

One thing for sure, I'm not going to shoot at the same spot with broadheads anymore.

[Looper]

Doug, I hear what you're saying.  I guess you're right.  I'm pretty confident I could shoot through a moose or black bear with this setup.  It does shoot pretty flat, too.  I think I can tune out that little wobble with a nock or brace adjustment.

[jrchambers]

i was able to go up 25 grains in point weight with 3/4 inch cut off.  they bare shaft well left to right,  as far as nock point i had a bit of trouble,  i set it to 3/8 and my bare shafts hit way LOW now this means drop your nock point, unless you are way too low, so i went down a bit it got worse, then went up and ended up settling on 5/8 above, which is pretty high but thats where they all came together, actualy they do group just a touch low but thats what O.L. recomends for fletching clearence.

looper that setup you have will do anything you want, i too would want a heavyer head but thats just my opinion.