micro serrations versus razor sharp

[Richie Nell]

Sharp but rough cuts still seem to hurt more though

No doubt there.

From what my pea brain can muster and what I read, I think that is why the rough cut may clot quicker.  The body is well aware it needs to mend the situation.  The super fine cuts we get seem to bleed more because maybe they are less detected by our system and clotting takes longer.

[fido dog]

Originally posted by Richie Nell:
 

Sharp but rough cuts still seem to hurt more though

No doubt there.

From what my pea brain can muster and what I read, I think that is why the rough cut may clot quicker.  The body is well aware it needs to mend the situation.  The super fine cuts we get seem to bleed more because maybe they are less detected by our system and clotting takes longer. [/b]

I cut my leg while slicing a piece of Balsa wood for a model airplane when I was younger. I didn't even know it until I noticed my jeans were red. I still can look at the scar 25 years later.

[Jeff Strubberg]

That's not really the question, though.  The question is, does that polished edge hold up on it's trip through the animal?

I don't think there's any question that a scalpel edge cuts better than a file edge.  The question I have is, for how long?  It's not like you could discard your scalpel and grab a new one once past the hide of an animal (which is what a surgeon would do while operating).

Maybe I worry too much, but my experience while butchering is that a polished edge gets dulled much, much faster than a rougher edge.

[Drummer@Home]

That’s true a filed edge does seem to hold its sharpness longer. Unless a Deer is feeding away from you and you aim for the bull’s-eye and aspect a pass threw out the nose??     Never mind that wont work    Just kidding

[Jeff Strubberg]

Like I said, it's entirely possible that I worry too much...

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
  The question is, does that polished edge hold up on it's trip through the animal?

 

Yep....is sure does...shot animals with Aces, WWs, Abowyers, Simmons, Silver Flame, and MANY Zwickeys that were sharp enough to shoot at another animal after passing through one.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Thanks Terry.  I've dulled a polished edge on a knife by walking too close to a muddy carcass...

[Richie Nell]

It seems like regardless of how small the serrations are, they are small bumps on the edge of a blade and would be more vulnerable about breaking off.  The smooth polished edge is all one continuos blade. As Terry points out, It really has nothing measureable to break off or dull as it slides through an animal.

[freefeet]

Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
Maybe I worry too much, but my experience while butchering is that a polished edge gets dulled much, much faster than a rougher edge.

My experience from 7 years as a chef, and speaking to many butchers, is that a straight polished blade holds up far better than a rougher one.

In the catering trade it's all about speed and time.  If a rough edge was more efficient and lasted longer then caterers - chefs butchers etc., would have realised this a long time ago and would be using these edges today.  They don't, they use smooth sharp edges for everything except bread knives, because they are the most efficient and last longest between sharpenings.

Just my opinion from working in hotels and restaurants.

Cut up an ox heart with a serrated blade and then do it with a smooth polished razor edge, the razor edge will whiz through it without any effort while the serrated edge needs continuous sawing action.

[Jeff Strubberg]

freefeet,

That's not been my experience at all.  I keep my kitchen knives sharp, but I also have a steel handy for touch ups.

We butcher four to five beef a year and a dozen hogs or so for family and friends.  When I am skinning and doing the rough cutting on an animal, a stoned edge (and a slightly steeper taper) lasts many times longer between sharpenings than a mirror edge.  Now, when I get to the trim table and all I am cutting is clean meat on a cutting board, then a scalpel edge is great.  Less effort means fewer chances for my blood to end up on the table!

Can't argue with the experience in this thread concerning broadheads. If the head is coming out the other side still scary sharp, then that's all you can ask.

[unregistered]

Posted this on another thread dealing with the "sharp" debate. Hope it helps.

I am a meat cutter by trade and while no doctor I would like to add. First off when I attended my meat cutting course our instructor taught us how to use his wheel grinder to sharpen our knives. Using this method I was able to get my knifes so sharp that the mere wieght of the blade on my leg would shave the hair right off. However another student in my course was never quite able to figure the system out, and as a result his blades rarely shaved hair. During our course we were required to "stick" live animals. These included Pigs, Cattle and Lamb. We each would have a set day when we would be the "sticker". I can say that without a doubt, the shaving edge caused more bleeding for a far longer period. When I stuck my critter the blood would gush out and when we pumped their legs after, very little blood remained to be drained. When my classmate stuck his he did not get quite the same amount of gushing, and pumping the legs always resulted in large spurts of blood. I believe this was due to his duller cuts clotting at a faster rate than mine before the animal died of blood loss. We each stuck our animals in the same spot with the same model of blade and our animals were often of same body size. We killed over 100 animals in our course and the results were always the same.

[KentuckyWolf]

A jagged edge leaves a jagged edge on the blood vessels that it cuts. This means greater surface area, which is more area for platelets to stick to and begin forming a platelet plug (clot). Razor sharp hands down. Don't believe me...then go cut your finger with each type (make sure to hold both wounds open - you might get a false result if the razor cut is allowed to collapse) and see which stops first.

[Richie Nell]

.....and if the razor edges doesn't bleed the most...you may need to try it again.

[Terry Green]

Jeff... edge durability comes from a combo of 'steel and angle'.  Not whether its serrated, micro serrated, or polished.

[freefeet]

Yesterday i tested my kitchen knife.  Sharpened up to 1200 diamond stone and then stropped with jewellers rouge on leather for a sweetly polished edge that shaved without popping.

I then diced a whole bull's heart on a plastic chopping board, cutting down onto the chopping board on each pass.  Then finely diced two onions on same chopping board.  And then finely diced 6 tomatoes without any snagging or deformation on the skins of the toms as the knife went through them - which i think says a lot about the durability of a razor honed edge.

This isn't the greatest of knives either (£15).  From all my knives i think this one loses its edge the quickest.

For me the tomatoes are the ultimate test.  That a cheap kitchen knife can still do that to a tomato after the abuse of the plastic chopping board gives me a lot of confidence in sharpening my broadheads to the same level.

I have previously file sharpened this knife (when i haven't had time to sharpen it properly and just wanted to eat) and it doesn't hold up at all once the microserrations left by the file hit the chopping board, they just fold over.

Just my experience.

[jhg]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
.. edge durability comes from a combo of 'steel and angle'....  

I think this is a point that does not get mentioned a lot. I can use my own mis-sharpened Grizzlies as an example of razor sharp broadheads that lost that "edge" (literally and figuratively) on contact. As a woodworker I know when an edge is sharp and when an edge is done "right" so it holds that edge. I am fortunate in that this vocational experience helped me recognise that even though off the strop my BH was sharp, it was not really suitable for hunting.
My long winded point is its worth knowing what angles and what steels are best.
 And if we are going to test edges cutting stuff in the kitchen why not use our broadhead instead. Then we'd know something..

Joshua

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by jhg:
 

Originally posted by Terry Green:
.. edge durability comes from a combo of 'steel and angle'....  

I think this is a point that does not get mentioned a lot.  [/b]

Yep!

[freefeet]

Originally posted by jhg:
And if we are going to test edges cutting stuff in the kitchen why not use our broadhead instead.

No need.  My point was that a file sharpened edge isn't as durable as a polished edge - same blade, edge angle being equal.  It doesn't matter what blade you do it with you'll get the same results.

[jhg]

I meant to find out how well the BH itself holds an edge. I might do that, since I don't hunt a lot of other game besides elk and deer.

J-