Yet another arrow tuning question!

[huntin_sparty]

I am new to trad archery but the addiction is on more major than my first bite from the archery bug.
THE SET UP
BOW
I have a Black Widow PSA III 46@28  my draw is 28.
ARROWS
Carbon Express Heritage 150s
length from insert to end of arrow 29 5/8
length from insert to nock 30 1/8
THE SITUATION (not the tool from Jersey Shore)
I started at 31 and cut, shot, repeated until bare shaft was going where fletched was going.  Problem is I cant shoot in my yard (darn subdivision living) and my basement range is only 9-10 yards.

Anyhow I drove 20 minutes to the range and shot thinking I would be in good shape but at longer distance 20 yards the bare shafts are hitting way right and flying ugly nock left.  Indicating weak, which is weird cause Roger sent me the 90s and the 150s to try for that poundage. So I figured the 150s shouldnt be weak at 46lbs!

I did drop the weight out front from 175 to 145 then to 125 and it got a little better but still right.  Even with the fletching I get some corkscrew arrows once in awhile.

ENOUGH OF THE NOVEL THE QUESTIONS
Can my form or release be so poor to give exagerated or false bare shaft readings?

Is there any way the CE Heritage 150s be too weak for 46#s?

I am using 4 inch 4 parabolic feather fletch at 75x105 is that going to be a problem shooting off the shelf?

Thanks for any help or insights!

[GMMAT]

Can my form or release be so poor to give exagerated or false bare shaft readings?
 

Yes.

 

Is there any way the CE Heritage 150s be too weak for 46#s?
 

Yes.  At aome length and with enough tip weight.

[huntin_sparty]

Guess a follow up question.  Should I cut more off to stiffen or find someone around to look at my form and release to see if thats really the problem.  I would hate to cut em up more and find as most often with shooting its the archer not the equipment!

[mrpenguin]

I had issues with tuning carbons to a Robertson once... turns out the Axis arrows did not jive well with the bow's center cut shelf.  Try a couple of different arrows first.  Carbon is awfully forgiving, so it could be just the diameter of the arrow and spine.  It could be weight tip and diameter.  And it can be release as well.  You can check that with a mechanical release if you have axis to one.  If the arrow darts with a mech release, then try doing some serious form drills and see if that helps.

Good luck!

[Smallwood]

are you using weighted brass inserts or the standard aluminum inserts?
Also, what is your nock point height and brace height?
I think it's best to start with a nock point intentionally set too high and work your nock point down 1/8" at a time until you get where you want to be. otherwise, it could bump off the shelf giving you crazy readings.    
If your arrows are showing weak, you could reduce the brace height on your bow until they are tuned.

[huntin_sparty]

Originally posted by mrpenguin:
  And it can be release as well.  You can check that with a mechanical release if you have axis to one.  If the arrow darts with a mech release, then try doing some serious form drills and see if that helps.

Good luck!

I have releases from my wheel bows.  Thumb trigger, wrist strap finger trigger.  Could I use one of those?  Do I clip above nock point or below the nock?
Thanks for the help

[huntin_sparty]

Originally posted by Smallwood:
are you using weighted brass inserts or the standard aluminum inserts?
Also, what is your nock point height and brace height?

1) 50 gr weighted brass trying to get 500gr arrow
2) 1/2 inch np and 8 3/4 brace height
Thanks

[mrpenguin]

To check with a release, I just use it like I would with a compound bow.  The trick is drawing to 28"... I'd suggest marking an arrow to 28" and shoot it several times, watch the flight and how it tunes... also if your arrow is weak you want to INCREASE the brace height to stiffen the arrow, not decrease it.  Lower BH=faster arrow, more breaking down of spine.  Higher BH=Slower arrow, less breaking down of spine.  No matter what you do first, you have to systematically change only one thing at a time, tune that part, then move on to the next.  I would start by choosing the arrow and broadhead set up you desire to use, then tune the bow around that beginning with the lowest brace height the manufacturer recommends... I believe on a PSR that is 7".  

Mine (PSR III) was a 54-55# @ 28".  I shot split fingers.  I used Easton Epic 500 N-Fused with 150-200 grains up front cut to 29" with 3 5" helical feathers.  FF Black Widow string.  Brace height was 7 1/2"... Nock was just under 1/8th if I recall properly... and they shot like darts right where I looked.

Check this site out... I think it is pretty definitive on tuning:

 http://www.bowmaker.net/tuning.htm

Good luck and enjoy that bow!  I miss mine immensely!!

[Don Stokes]

But be aware that you won't get the same results from a release. When shooting with fingers, the string rolls off to the side and introduces a force vector that you don't have with a release.

[Smallwood]

Originally posted by Don Stokes:
But be aware that you won't get the same results from a release. When shooting with fingers, the string rolls off to the side and introduces a force vector that you don't have with a release.

yep  

[huntin_sparty]

Super THANKS TO SMALLWOOD!!  As suggested I shortened the arrow to 29 bop and removed the 50 gr brass insert and replaced with the aluminum and bare shaft is flying like a dart! Thanks for feedback guys. Yahoo, my release isnt totally spastic causing crazy arrow flight!

[Smallwood]

Glad to help.