Any bowyers honor second owner in warranty period?

[jacobsladder]

isnt ebony prone to crack if it hasnt been dried completely before finishing? seems like ive read alot of problems with ebony as a riser wood...maybe the wood wasnt dry enough before it was sealed...

[Bob Morrison]

All Recurves have a full replacement cost warranty for the first year, handles for two years.  A fifty percent replacement cost for limbs during their second year.  Damage to limbs from dry firing or improper stringing is not covered.  

And he will fix other bowyer bows for free or he will build you his bow for free and send you the old bow back to boot.    Sounds like a plan, Not a business plan..
  This is one of the main reason a full time bowyer is reluctant about 2nd and 3rd owners. WHO HAS DONE WHAT TO THE BOW????? Wife said to get a Vasectomy or else... Real Doctor want $2500 and your wife said she could do it FREE. No warranty either way,,, so which way do you go?????  

[HATCHCHASER]

Can y'all not get that if the warranty states it is good to the original buyer only then the second buyer has no warranty.  Every other remedy is a matter of opinion. If I bought a bow second hand I would contact the bowyer and try to work out what is fair for both of us. He works for a living just like me and I don't like doing things for free that I am not obligated too. I have had a couple bows crack and no troubles with the bowyers, but I was in my warranty limitations.  It does not matter what we think is right or wrong when we agree to certain stipulations, and when we buy a used bow we agree to have no warranty per the manufacturers specs. Everyone should know that the majority of trad bow makers warranty their products to the original purchaser.

This happened with fly rods some years ago. Lifetime warranties came out, and soon after rod prices doubled. Sure it is nice to have a fly rod shut in a car door and get It replaced for free, but if there was not this warranty I could buy 2 for the same price and have a backup. These warranties are built into the cost. You get what you pay for, and they are all to the original purchaser. A used rod is worth a lot more if it has not had the warranty card filled out and can be passed to the new owner.  I am all for lowering the price and having say a six month or a year warranty.

Bottom line you pay more for new and you get more via a warranty. You also have to pay the 11 percent fed excise tax that you don't pay the second time around.  To answer the original post question, Dan Tolke is the only one I know of. There may be more, but I am sure most will repair or fix anything out of warranty at a modest price.

[Bob Morrison]

Ebony, Gaboon is probably the most likely to develope cracks, Macasser Ebony next. There has been a shortage of Macasser for a couple years now, You can get wet stuff and your looking at 2 years min. air drying, it need to be Maximum 12%
And at 12% it can stll develope cracks especially in drier areas of the country. Your Bowyer will be able to refinish the bow once it has stabilized in your area, with no structural problem at all.

Cracks can also develope in all woods no matter how dry they are, ITS WOOD. We check all of our woods with a moisture meter before we use it, anything over 12% is stacked  until it is 12% or less with a new clean cut to fresh wood.
2 different woods glued together will change at different rate also making a line that you can feel, also not hurt the strength at all. We do have risers that I warranty 100% free from ever cracking or breaking of any kinda....Metal...

[LBR]

I certainly wouldn't expect them to stick to "it's for the original buyer" since the warranty on your page doesn't mention anything about that. If I had a mat/work problem before the 2 year mark and I was not the original owner, it would be expected for them to take care of it because of the stated warranty.

Not to veer from the topic, but why would you expect them to honor my typo?  That's not CM's site, it's mine--if anything, it's my responsibility.  I've got a lot of typos, misprints, and flat-out goofs since I had my site reworked, and haven't had a chance to address nearly all of them.  Thanks for bringing that one to my attention.  I'm currently having to reside in a different state due to sickness in the family, but will get that taken care of as soon as I get time to discuss it with my webmaster.

What if another CM dealer has the correct warranty stated?  What if a dealer doesn't state anything?  Going by the logic presented, wouldn't it be up the buyer to do their homework and find out direct from CM what the warranty is?

Due to recent posts, even someone as slow as me can put 2 and 2 together and see that some of replies and opinions are far from unbiased--unlike mine and several others who didn't have a clue who was involved.

Now that I figured some of it out, I think I'll step out of it, except to correct any mistakes about CM or something I've said.

[Raging Water]

I agree with Gene.

Matt

[Bob Morrison]

This should help, Easyup bought a Morrison Riser 2nd hand. I'm pretty sure he lives in Arizona, It's dry there and I sure it has dried more and opened up grain or has developed a crack. I offered to fix it for a nominal fee, but we couldn't come to an agreement.

I real think this thread has helped a lot of people realize they need to check warranties and not to expect anything more than what is in that warranty, being sincere and not demanding will help in getting you problem fixed. Otherwise you will probably have to fix it your self.

[JC]

Sorry Chad, I misunderstood. It seemed as if the website for Checkmate Bows was recurves.com and just assumed that was THE website for Checkmate. Maybe there should be a link to their actual website. But, if yours is the website that represents them, and they allow and have approved that representation, I would expect them to honor it.

Yes it would be up to the purchaser to do their homework but in this case, I did. I googled Checkmate bows and got recurves.com as Checkmate bows...at the top of the page it says "Checkmate Bows", not Chad's bowsite or whatever other name. The sight looks like it is THE site for Checkmate bows. Until you just said that, I honestly thought it was their site. So if I were a new buyer and looking for Checkmate, I would have thought I had found their website and their warranty is clearly stated there. So if there were a warranty claim that went awry because of your posted warranty, I wouldn't care who honored it, as long as someone did for the Checkmate Bow. I would have assumed it would be Checkmate themselves since they work through you the dealer.

Sorry to hear about your family, I pray everything works out for you and them.

I'm not sure about others being biased or you and several others being unbiased...I gave my opinion as what I believe with warranties in general. Whether that's Bob's bows, Checkmate Bows, Black Widow, or who ever...the warranty is what's stated. Nothing more, nothing less. Not everyone sees that and not everyone believes that a bowyer is entitled to his own warranty, with whatever stipulations he decides to make. One warranty being different than another does not make one bowyer "better" or more honorable than the other. It's business and as long as they adhere to their clearly stated warranty, they are all equally good and honorable.

I think the end result is, check the warranty if you are buying any bow, used or not.  If you have questions before buying a bow, it's always best to talk to the bowyer directly. Be an informed consumer and you can't be a victim.

That said, I think those that disagree will continue to disagree...the discussion was an informative one and all parties involved did a good job of carrying on the discussion without turning it into something that would get pulled. I think we have run it's course and if anything further needs to be discussed I think it is best done in private.

[JC]

Topic reopened because Chad feels I closed it prematurely without allowing him to discuss the wording on his website (note, not Checkmate's website).

Chad, the floor is yours.

[LBR]

Like I said, when I figured out more on who the discussion was about, I got out--except to correct any misinformation about CM.

 

 It seemed as if the website for Checkmate Bows was recurves.com and just assumed that was THE website for Checkmate. Maybe there should be a link to their actual website. But, if yours is the website that represents them, and they allow and have approved that representation, I would expect them to honor it.
 

I can understand getting that impression at a glance, but it seems obvious to me that, if you read over my site, I'm not the bowyer.  I talk about the bowyer (Marc) and the company in third person--not like it's me.  CM has never had a website--might one day, but they don't at this moment.  My site represents MY business--CM doesn't pay for it, and as long as I keep it honest they don't much care about what it says--the same as with any other dealer.


 

Yes it would be up to the purchaser to do their homework but in this case, I did. I googled Checkmate bows and got recurves.com as Checkmate bows...at the top of the page it says "Checkmate Bows",...  

Ok, I just "Googled" the term "Chek-Mate Bows" and just on the first page it lists no less than 5 dealers (I think one or two are former dealers), including Git-R-Done, who is also a TG sponsor.

 

I would have thought I had found their website and their warranty is clearly stated there.  

On the FAQ page?  Like I told you, my site needs a lot of work--I don't think I even have a direct link to the warranty.  It's worded clearly,but it's in a short answer version and you have to hunt to find it. I include a detailed version when I ship the bows.  I'll review it when I get home and probably revise it due to this thread, and I plan to add a detailed version to my site also.

 

So if there were a warranty claim that went awry because of your posted warranty, I wouldn't care who honored it, as long as someone did for the Checkmate Bow. I would have assumed it would be Checkmate themselves since they work through you the dealer.  

I think "assumptions" are what got this whole mess started to begin with--a guy assumed that since his bow was nearly new, it would get fixed for free.

I'm not "the" dealer, I'm "a" dealer.  The following information is also on my site (there's a link at the bottom of each and every page):

"Typographical errors will not be honored and are the responsibility of the purchaser."

CM shouldn't be held liable because I goofed or because you didn't read the disclaimer--but that's never been a problem, because they go above and beyond on warranty work.

I appreciate the opportunity to straighten that out.

[JimmyC]

Chek-Mate and Martin have both repaired 2nd hand bows for me, FREE OF CHARGE and HAPPY to do it!  

Bought a beautiful used Chek-Mate Crusader that promptly developed a small riser crack due to the change in wood moisture as will happen with any bow as mentioned above. Called Chad (again, I bought it used from another party) to see if I should be concerned about it as it was very small, prompt response from Chad was "send it to bowyer, they insist!"  All I was out was shipping one way and basically got a new bow a few weeks later!

In the case of a Martin Stick, the tip was damaged while being shipped from the seller to me.  They did not even blink when I asked if they could repair it for me, I offered to pay but they flat out refused.

Warranties are one thing, proof in the pudding is another.  That is just some of my direct experience with such issues and you can bet I'd recommend these two companies to everybody I know, all day long!
   

[JC]

Originally posted by LBR: I can understand getting that impression at a glance  

Yep, that's all I did...glance...saw the banner at the top in big letters that says "Check-mate bows".

 

Ok, I just "Googled" the term "Chek-Mate Bows" and just on the first page it lists no less than 5 dealers (I think one or two are former dealers), including Git-R-Done, who is also a TG sponsor.

Google it without the hypen....yours is the first one and the only one on the first page of that search. Lemme know if you get something different.

 

On the FAQ page?  Like I told you, my site needs a lot of work--I don't think I even have a direct link to the warranty.  It's worded clearly,but it's in a short answer version and you have to hunt to find it. I include a detailed version when I ship the bows.  I'll review it when I get home and probably revise it due to this thread, and I plan to add a detailed version to my site also.

Yep, You don't have a direct link to the warranty, it's right there on the FAQ. I think a detailed version would be a great idea, just to clarify things for your potential customers. I wasn't saying anything about your site needing or not needing work, only reporting what you said on your site.

 

I think "assumptions" are what got this whole mess started to begin with--a guy assumed that since his bow was nearly new, it would get fixed for free.

No what got this whole mess started was someone not reading the bowyer's warranty. I read the warranty on your page, that's all I was going by. If someone who didn't know checkmate from adam, which I don't, saw this big banner at the top that said "Check-mate bows" after googling checkmate bows, I think it would be a very fair and reasonable assumption to come to the conclusion it was Check-mate's site or at least authorized by Check-mate and any warranty info there would be their warranty because it was represented as such.

 

I am not "the" dealer, I'm "a" dealer.

Now that you've said it, that's clear.

 

The following information is also on my site (there's a link at the bottom of each and every page): "Typographical errors will not be honored and are the responsibility of the purchaser."

Again, I didn't scroll down, on a 15" laptop that lower area doesn't show up...I clicked on faq's on the left and clearly saw Warranty on the middle of the page. Personally, I don't think leaving out a clause in the warranty is a typo...a "5" instead of a "6" is, but an entire phrase was left out. I'm sure not intentionally, and you did clear up what their warranty actually is, but I don't think that could be considered a "typo" (your mileage varies).  Obviously, sometimes folks are going to have different definitions of words and their applications. Doesn't make much difference now since you're changing it to the actual warranty.

 

CM shouldn't be held liable because I goofed or because you didn't read the disclaimer--but that's never been a problem, because they go above and beyond on warranty work.

Now that we know your site is the official Check-mate one, that's clear...it wasn't before you said it. If they always go above and beyond on their current warranty, they should consider changing it to what they actually do...if it's above and beyond the current (which is a pretty good warranty already) it would be an even better  selling point than they have now.

 

I appreciate the opportunity to straighten that out.

No problem, it's been a good discussion that I think has opened a lot of people's eyes where warranties are concerned.

[DesertDude]

So what have we learned from this post?

1. Be sure you read the boyers warranty and understand it.

2. Some boyers are willing to fix manufacturing defects/flaws even if the bow is with the 2nd or 3rd owner. (Note. still under the time line of the original warranty and no abuse is found).

3. Some boyers will only repair manufacturing defects/flaws with the Original owner.  This is stated in their Warranty.

4. When dealing with Boyers/customers Respect goes a long way....

5. When buying used, be ready to bite the bullet if something goes wrong with your bow.

In the end I can see both sides of the fence. I still feel that if a defect/flaw/workmanship is found before the Original warranty time is up it should be fixed no matter who owns the bow. NOTE if abuse or mishandling is found to be the cause then thats a different story. In the end it comes down to what THAT Boyers warranty states.

Mark

[LBR]

Now that we know your site is the official Check-mate one, that's clear  

There is no "official" Chek-Mate site..  

[LBR]

Google it without the hypen....yours is the first one and the only one on the first page of that search. Lemme know if you get something different.

Only got two dealers that way (myself and one other).  I can't help it if someone misspells the company name......  

[JC]

I know there isn't an official CM site, you said that already....I said yours wasn't...and it's not. There we both repeated ourselves for nothing.    :D  

Here's what mine comes up with on the first page...your site is at the top, the others are forum references or software downloads.

 

Yep, my fault for misspelling it....bet no one has done that before looking for their bows    :rolleyes:

[PaPaFrank]

Just as a Reality Check, it wasn't a Check-Mate bow sold by Chad, that was the subject of this thread....It was a Morrison, correct?

[DesertDude]

Yes Bob posted about it.......

[Butch Speer]

Chad sure seems to be catching a lot of flack just trying to explain how Check-Mate treats their customers.

[JC]

I wasn't giving Chad flack...just pointed out the CM warranty he had on his site; he and I had a discussion from there. There was some confusion, at least on my part, about the warranty stated and CM's actual warranty. He wanted to clarify things he said just as I did. Looks like that's been done. I thought both he and I responded in an appropriate manner, as did everyone else from what I read.

Yep, it was a Morrison, as Bob said. However the discussion started with so many generalities much of what was said was in regards to warranties in general. Other than the CM confusion....which Chad cleared up.

I think Mark summed it up well in his post a few posts above...