Bowyer "warranty" question ???

[Winterhawk1960]

First off, I'm only posting this to ask what the definition of "limited" means. I realize that when "limited" isn't defined it becomes a very "gray" area.

I'm not going to mention the bowyer, and am NOT here to put anyone down, nor drag their name over the coals. They are NOT a sponsor here, but none-the-less.....I just want the problem fixed.

I purchased a "new" bow from a bowyer that advertises as having the longest warranty offered on bows in the business. That being said, it seems that the problem may, or may not be fixed under the warranty. I have noticed that, what looks to me like "air bubbles" under the finish. They are on both sides of the limbs and seem to be the worst at the areas where the limbs flex (it is a recurve, by the way). I contacted the bowyer and told him of my findings and also mentioned that I had only had the bow for a little over a month. He told me that he had never had any trouble with his finish on his bows.........which I have no reason to doubt.

I mentioned that the bow was still under warranty and that I would like for it to be taken care of. He said that he couldn't tell anything about it without being able to "see" the limbs for himself. I intend to fix that, courtesy of the U.S.P.S. Perhaps when he said that he couldn't tell anything about them was in another way saying........"Send them to me" and I am jumping to conclusions.........if so, shame on me. I can assure you that I haven't done anything to cause this to happen to the limbs outside of shooting arrows. I also know for a fact that the arrows that I am shooting are well within the 8 to 10 gpp for the bow.

The other thing that bothers me about the limbs are that they are marked about 3# lighter than they really are. That might not sound like much, but most bowyers are keeping it within 2#, or at least that has been my experience. I feel I need to also add that I bought this bow from the "in stock" list of bows that were already built and ready to ship. To further complicate the issue, I had an order in for a longbow built to my specs. I ordered the bow to be 50# @ 29" and receive a call from the bowyer telling me that the limbs had came in "heavy"........and wanting to know "what weight" I would be satisfied with. I said.........50# @ 29" and the reply back was that it was gonna take a lot of grinding to get them down to that. So........be it, I ordered what I wanted and answered the question honestly.

I have in the past few months spent right at $2000 with this bowyer for his bows, including the final payment on the longbow that I ordered. Before receiving the longbow, I mentioned the limbs on the recurve and the air bubbles under the finish. There was never anything said, directly anyways about just sending in the limbs and getting the problem taken care of. I reluctantly went ahead and paid the final $500 for the bow that I ordered, which did come in at the weight that I ordered.

I don't feel that I am a hard person to please, and that I am being unreasonable at all to "expect" someone to honor their advertised "longest warranty in the business". Let me add one more suggestion by the bowyer as to how to "check" to see if it actually was air bubbles under the finish. This is directly from the bowyers mouth. "Take some 4-0 steel wool and directly over the air bubbles.......polish it down to see if they go away".

What the hell ???? Then the limbs would be damaged by ME !!!!! I think not......the limbs will go out in the mail this week. One way or another these limbs will be refinished. If the bowyer doesn't want to fix a problem that was no fault of mine.......I will have someone else refinish the whole bow.

................BUT.................rest assured, I will never spend another dollar with him for one of his bows. This just all leaves a "bad taste" in my mouth. With all the talented bowyers out there today.......this is something that I refuse to have to deal with. It won't do any good to ask me "who" this is, because the ONLY way that I am going to tell anyone is "if" I have to send the whole bow to someone else to have it refinished.

Like I said, never once.......in several different conversations about this problem did the bowyer say.......just send the limbs to me and let me fix the problem. Then again, perhaps the word "limited" in his eyes means something that I'm not seeing.

What think ye ????

Winterhawk1960

[Ragnarok Forge]

I think you need to give the guy and chance to make things right.  If he won't do that, then it is time to put the heat on him.  

I always give every retailer a chance to make things right.  If I am unhappy with the end results then I never do business with that individual again, and feel free to tell everyone I know not to shop with them ever.  Good customer service is rewarded with glowing reccomendations, bad customer service is  rewarded with damning reccomendations so everyone can avoid that company at all costs.

Word of mouth will make or break you in any  business.  I am remaking a handle for a customers hawk.  He wasn't happy with it and I told him to send it my way for a quick fix.  Happy customers make for a productive business. So as a seller my view is you keep the customer happy.

[cbCrow]

Don, the first thing I would do is cool off. I would email him about your concerns with the recurve and explain everything in detail(leave the LB out of it), and ask how you go about rectifying this situation. If he replys chances are he will give you a good answer and things will happen for you, if he doesn't email him again( save and print out emails). If no response and you paid by credit card,call your card company and ask for their help. Make sure to ask in your emails he respond in like,this way you have a trail. I had a similar situation and wound up sending info to the bowyers local authorities which got the situation settled to my liking. As far as I am concerned a bowyer is a businessman and if they can't back up what they say they deserve to be exposed and held to close scutiny.

[Winterhawk1960]

I agree.....with the both of you. I'm not mad, (at least not yet) and apologize if I came across that way. This is just a very frustrating situation for me and a first.

cbCrow.....he doesn't want to respond to emails and prefer's phone or in person contact, which I understand and kind of prefer myself. I can get a pretty good feel for someone with a 10 minute phone conversation.

I am really hoping that this is just taken care of and all will be well. As I said in the original post........I'm just wanting to get some opinions about how a person should handle it. I've had several days to get over the "shock" of the suggestion as to check the finish for myself.

As Ragnarok Forge said "Happy customers make for a productive business"

We'll see........and I will post back as to the outcome of all this. I wasn't going to post anything, but needed to see if I was/am being unreasonable.

Winterhawk1960

[bigbadjon]

I believe I know who you are talking about and I wouldn't get worried about it yet.

[bigbadjon]

Oh, getting back to your question. I do believe you are in the right to expect an even bubbleless finish on your bows. I also believe any credible bowyer would honor the warranty on that issue.

[Danny Rowan]

Sounds like the bubbles may be under the clear glass in the glue. Had that happen once on a high end bow and the bowyer fixed the problem.

[bornagainbowhunter]

I am in the process of ordering a new bow, I will tell his name, from Dick Robertson.  I was asking about one of the "in stock" bows to see if I could test drive one about 60# @ 28".  He did not have one, but stated that when I recieved mine if I was not satisified with the looks or draw weight or anything at all that he would gladly take the bow and build me one that I was COMPLETELY satisified with.  I already own 2 Robertsons and see more in my future.  

How is that for warrenty?

If a person does not completely stand behind his work, I do not cart what form of work, he is not getting my business if I can help it.  That being said, I also agree that you should give him a chance to make it right.  Maybe, he will turn this into a more positive experience that it has been so far.

[Orion]

Interesting.  Of course, he should have asked you to send him the bow immediately so he could check it over.  Some small bubbles under the glass won't necessarily affect performance or the bow's longevity, but cosmetically, they're rather unsightly.  A large number or large size bubbles, of course, could lead to delamination.  The only way I know to "fix" this problem is to make a different set of limbs.

The bowyer's comment about your longbow needing a lot of grinding to make wight is also worrisome, in my opinion.  Most bowyers, if they miss the weight by a lot, just make a different set of limbs, and the first set goes to their in-stock list.  For sure, some probably do a lot of grinding, but most wouldn't tell their customers about it.  A lot of grinding can change the dynamics of the bow and even create structural weaknesses.  Hope things turn out OK for you.

[Burnsie]

I obviously wasn't part of the phone conversations you had with the bowyer so maybe his tone of voice and overall demeanor have you thinking the way you do.  I would send him the limbs and see if he makes things right.  If not, then I would get tough.  You seem to be anticipating the worst before it has actually happened.  But like I said, I wasn't part of the phone conversations so maybe you have good reason to be leery about the way things are going.

[Bjorn]

I didn't think there were bowyer's who aren't sponsors! LOL
Like Danny said the bubbles are more than likely under the glass in the glue, and steel wool won't fix the problem. A few bubbles don't matter-numerous ones do.
To me it sounds like an attitude thing and not a warranty thing; any bowyer I have dealt with has fixed problems that were 'theirs' regardless of age of the bow and my experience has been that they go overboard to ensure complete customer satisfaction-all of them have also been sponsors here.
2 pounds is the acceptable range for a bow whether he 'has a lot of grinding to do' or a little.
Keep after this person and hopefully he will do what is right.

[Cherokee Scout]

If you see air bubbles, my guess is that it is not in the finish. Sounds like it is under the glass, maybe he had some problem with his air pressure or gluing process. If the bow is done right, there should not be any bubbles under the glass.
I won't name anyone here, but I would bet I can guess the bowyer. I know of two very well known ones who will do anything to avoid handling a warranty.

[Gordon martiniuk]

hmmm I think any good Bowyer will make a mistake right as far as weight goes you should get close to what you ordered ,, I think if a Bowyer had to grind my limbs down to make weight I would not want to know that (bad Mojo) but I believe that that is a fairly standard thing to do if the weight is too high as far as bubbles in finish I would tell him I was dissapointed with finish and was sending it back,, any custom Bowyer will understand that one of the reasons for a high end Bow is the fit and finish Good Luck! and be respectfull yet forcefull enough for Bowyer to know you are not happy with it most I have dealt with would without question fix your problem

[DeerSpotter]

I had a bow that was doing exactly the same thing , I thought bubbles under the finish ,I purchased the bow right off of Trad gang ,It was a used bow,Matter of fact the Bowyer that made it was John Mcdonald. And I know for fact that the bow was at least three years old .I was able to call up john and ask about the problem.And the first thing he said to me

"Carl if you'll send it down I will refinish it for you,I'm going to give your name of the fella to send it to,He does all my refinishing "

And John Mcdonald did not want a charge me a dime!I sent the bow down and he refinished it.

But I was not a gracious receiver I sent him money for shipping and refinishing ,But that experiences never left me ,It is the standard that I hold every Bowyer I buy from .

Now here's the rest of the story ,Someone had sprayed on another  finish over the finish on the bow,And john still want to do it for nothing even after he recieved  the bow and inspected it and found out that was the case .

I think that the Bowyer who you got your bow from will take care of it ,If that bow is only a month are two old there's no reason not to.

You see everybody can have a bad day ,Maybe he got into a hurry ,And there's a lot of frustration with an economy like this ,I'm not making excuses For him ,But give him a chance.

Carl

[LongStick64]

My little nephew took a liking to my Rose Oak B riser, little guy thought he could carve his initials on it. Well this riser is real special to me, Emailed Brandon and he had me just pay shipping, Riser in perfect condition on return, now with my new limbs coming soon, I guess I'll be real careful with my nephew around. I'm sure Brandon winced when he say the riser but true class of a man, never passed a comment. He's in class by himself in my book.

[xtrema312]

Send it to him.  I am sure he will fix it up. Most boyers take good care of their customers. Could be he just was having on of those days.  

Sounds like glass issues to me also.  

I have had above and beyond service from the ones I have dealt with on new and used bows. Firefly, Thunderstick, and Whisperstick.  The Jims build great bows and take great care of you.