Easton Axis issues(cracking behind tip)

[dbishop]

Has anyone had the Easton Axis arrows crack right behind the tip while target shooting?  I have some(500's) that are about 1 month old that have some very tiny cracks running parallel with the shaft right against the tip.  I know the tip is being driven back on impact and causing this(some are belled out slightly).  My question is will this continue to be a problem or will it go away eventually.  I'm sure the threads on the tip and the threads in the insert have some slack when the tip is tightened against the arrow shaft. On impact it apparently drives back until the threads fully engage. I guess this small amount of give is whats cracking the shaft.  Surely the tip can't move back very far so hopefully the cracking won't get worse.  I have not hit anything hard with these arrows so that's not the problem.  I used JB weld on the inserts and I'm sure they are not slipping. Also, they are the 75gr brass inserts.

I just emailed Easton asking them if this is normal but they have not had time to respond yet.

Hopefully someone here has some info too.

Thanks
David

[Onestringer]

I use axis shafts also.  I have only used the epoxy supplied with the shafts and I have not had any points and inserts slide back into the shaft and I hit hard stuff all the time.

I am no expert but JB weld may be the issue.  Then again many people use JB weld for inserts.

[Bowspirit]

I've always had to foot any of my axis shafts with a small piece of aluminum shaft on the front end. Solves the problem completely. A 1.5-inch piece of 1916 aluminum shaft should do the trick on an Axis 500. It's a really common practice to make a simply bombproof carbon...

[Slasher]

Only had that problem with one arrow...  and I've been shooting this doz for 2 years... That one I dropped low and hit the concrete lip going into the garage... I tried a 40 yd shot to see if I could do it... I didn't realize how much more a 650 grain arrow drops han 25...)

But I use 24hr epoxy to install the inserts..  Could it be the inserts have worked loose and the heads are impacting into carbon shafts? Is it possible to use an old field tip and vise grips or a vise to see if it will pull out?

I like the footing Idea!!! Will do with the next set I do

[B/W lvr]

Hi David, what you are encountering is not uncommon on the Axis shafts. First thing you want to do is get an ASD, thats arrow squaring device, if the point end of the shaft isn't perfectly square it creates a pressure point where the point seats against the shaft. Thats a lot of pressure exerted at one tiny spot. That is the name they are sold under, ASD. I think Kustom King, Black Widow and 3R sell them.Next thing you want to do is use a footing on the front of the shaft. You can use eastons BAR's, broadhead adapter rings. Or use an inch or so of tubing(like a alum. arrow shaft) to foot the front of the shaft. I use 2020's on 340s but haven't use any on my 500's yet.I use all the methods mentioned above and don't have any of the splintering you are talking about since I have gone to these methods. The Axis is a great shaft just square the front and foot it and you'll have a very hard time breaking one. I've been shooting them for about 6 years now and won't use anything else. Feel free to PM me if you need any further questions answered. Frank

[dbishop]

I used the JB weld for the reason that it sets up a lot harder than most epoxy products.  I had some epic shafts that I used some other epoxy on and had one of the inserts driven back into the shaft upon striking a hard object.  It was still epoxied in but it appeared that the epoxy had a lot of give in it.  I've been using JB weld since then with great results(although its extremely permanent).  I have pulled the tips and inspected the inserts and there is no evidence of them slipping at all. I roughened up the inside of the shafts and cleaned them with denatured alcohol before installing them.

I do know that if you take a tip and thread it into the HIT insert until it bottoms out and then push it into the shaft, the insert does not seat nearly as deep in the shaft as the HIT  installation tool seats it. This makes me think that the front of the shaft has to take at least some of the impact before the insert does.

I really like the small diameter of these arrows and I really hate to foot them but I may have to.  I was wondering if a person could install a very small o-ring between the shaft and tip so the inserts threads would take the impact before the front of the shaft?  I may just put loctite on the tips and not tighten them down against the end of the shaft as much.  I have also thought about in the future just using the tips I plan to shoot to seat the insert instead of the tool that comes with them.  Anyone done this?

I may try the squaring device also. I do think these are pretty square though.

thanks so far for the info

Dave

[JRY309]

I only use the supplied epoxy and depth tool that comes with them.Did you put them in at the proper depth with the depth tool,maybe they are not deep enough?I have never had any problem with them cracking.

[cyred4d]

I have been using the axis shafts for about two years and have never had the problem you describe. You mention a slight gap and having the tip driven back. Did you use the tool provided by Easton to put the tips in or use a field point. I have noticed the Easton tool pushes the inserts in further.

[dbishop]

Maybe I am not being clear on this.  It's kinda hard to explain in text.  I did use the tool to install the inserts.  What I noticed was that when screwing in the tips they actually tighten up against the end of the carbon shaft(which I assume is correct)before they bottom out in the insert.  In other words, If I wanted to, I could keep tightening them to the point of splitting the shafts.

These cracks I'm talking about are very small and may never cause any real problem. I just wanted to be sure.

If I ever get a reply back from Easton I will let ya'll know what they say.

thanks
Dave

I wonder if the right hand fletching is actually causing the tips to tighten on impact so much that this is whats causing the cracks?

[CHAD]

dbishop, I have had the same thing happen with the axis .400s but not with the .500s i shoot out of my longbows.I know a lot of people that use them and never had a problem so i wrote it off as a bad batch.


                 Chad

[Thumper Dunker]

Are you using the right insert?

[JRY309]

Also with the depth tool,did you use the chamfer stone to ease the inside of the shaft? This is supposed to help keep the shaft from cracking. Just another thought. If you have alot of them cracking you can also foot them with a piece of aluminum shaft.

[dbishop]

Yes, I am using the brass HIT inserts that are made for the Axis.  I also did chamfer the inside of the shaft with the provided stone.  I am beginning to think it won't be any big deal.  I am going to bet that any cracking I get will not get worse.  The cracked area is small enough that I can probably use the squaring device mentioned earlier and git rid of the cracked ends.

Thanks
Dave

[JRY309]

Yes I do use the G5 squaring tool also,I get a pretty good square cut but always check them with my squaring tool also.It's a good tool,you can flip the end and square aluminum shafts also.

[Steve O]

Since going to JB Weld, I've been able to go away from footing the Axis type shafts.  Not so with the supplied epoxy or any other epoxy/gorilla glue I've tried.

I do usually use the GSD, but the step I believe helps most is taking a brass rifle cleaning brush and giving it a spin in the shaft, then cleaning all the dust out with a Q-tip and isopropyl alcohol.

[Big Ed]

I agree with footing the shaft, makes them very tough!!!!

[Shinken]

Aluminum footing on both the nock end (0.5") and the point end (1.0") makes them darn near indestructable.

My next set I am going to wrap with sinew and coat with finish to see how that performs.  Read it here on Trad Gang a while back that someone was experimenting with it.

Shoot straight, Shinken

[Bowspirit]

I really like the small diameter of these arrows and I really hate to foot them but I may have to.

Well, I think the appropriate footing is still rather small in diameter. Just a hair smaller than your average carbon shaft...

[M60gunner]

I shoot the 500 spine and use a footing. Mine is are old 1917 shafts. I use the 100 grain brass inserts that I glue in with golf shaft expoy. This makes a very tough arrow. I have hit rebar, rocks, metal car bodies ect. without breaking the arrow. I have destroyed the field tips but a new tip and back to shooting. Only one I broke so far was a slap shot off a log. It broke up by the flecth. I really like these shafts as you can tell.

[cyred4d]

I'll admit this is a long shot but did you cut the shafts? I was just wondering if the cut off saw would cause small cracks like you describe.