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Author Topic: static tips  (Read 1845 times)

Offline mqqse

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static tips
« on: May 19, 2007, 11:05:00 PM »
Okay, I've seen these on the RER Arroyo's (and have shot one), but I'm curious of the origin of the design and it's benefits.

Thanks,
Chris

Offline Str8Shooter

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Re: static tips
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2007, 04:38:00 PM »
From what I understand the static tips do two main things. First, the tips don't bend past a certain point in the draw which puts more stress into the center of the limbs. This is supposed to help with the performance of the bow. Second, because the tips don't bend as much as a full working recurve the string angle doesn't become as severe. Meaning you could shoot a shorter bow with less finger pinch.

Static tips also seem to be quieter than full working recurves all things being equal.

One thing to be careful of is stringing the bows. They can be a bit more touchy to twisting if you aren't careful.

Chris

Offline mqqse

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Re: static tips
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2007, 09:21:00 PM »
I wonder why you don't see it on more recurves?  Any disadvantages????  BTW, thanks for the info.

   :thumbsup:

Offline Precurve

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Re: static tips
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2007, 10:06:00 PM »
They're also used on the Horne's Archery bows and the Ancient Spirits Thunderhawk.  I've shot both the RER and the A.S., and both feel about 10#'s lighter than they're marked.  I don't see any disadvantages; with the RER it seems to add to the stability of the limb during the shot.

Offline WESTBROOK

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Re: static tips
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2007, 10:52:00 PM »
The Shrew Scout has static tips also, wheres the Java Man, maybe he will show up and enlighten us.

Eric

Offline Plywood Bender-laptop

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Re: static tips
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2007, 11:57:00 PM »
Static tips have always been Sovereign Ballistiks claim to fame.

I have two and they are both quiet and fast.  Because the bow actually gets longer as you draw it feels as if there is a let off.

Carl

Offline Jhoneil1

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Re: static tips
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 01:47:00 AM »
Pictures of my favorite static tip recurve. A Don Brown Kobra Striker.

 
   

 

Offline Mark Baker

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Re: static tips
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 11:28:00 AM »
My partner, Brent Rudolph knows bunches about this topic and the history and intricate workings of statics.   He says that statics on longer bows don't work the way they should, but can really shine on shorter bows.   The siyahs help to dampen vibration making properly designed bows quieter.   Our "Sheepeater Spirit" recurve is one of the nicest shooters you'll ever shoot, and really utilizes static tips  the way they should be designed into a bow.
My head is full of wanderlust, my quiver's full of hope.  I've got the urge to walk the prairie and chase the antelope! - Nimrod Neurosis

Offline Mechslasher

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Re: static tips
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2007, 02:01:00 PM »
static tips are a tool to be used in milking more performance from a bow.  i make osage selfbows and boo backed osage bows and there are limitations to when i use static tips.  using statics on a bow over 64" will cut down on performance because of the weight of the statics.  on shorter bows the statics help with string angle.  here are a couple bows i've made with statics.  the purple is a r/d static at 55# and it shoots around 175-180fps.  the second is an osage selfbow at 50# and it shoots around 170fps.  if this were a straight bow it would only shoot around 155-160fps.  i can usually get more speed out of a boo backed bow rather than a selfbow.

 

 
"There is beauty and magic in a drawn bow."

Cade (SC)

Offline rbbhunt

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Re: static tips
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2007, 10:32:00 PM »
I also have a Sovereign Ballistik and find it smooth and quiet.
RBBHUNT
"Those who will trade liberty for
security, deserve niether" B. Franklin (a long time ago and still valid)

Offline Brent Rudolph

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Re: static tips
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2007, 01:29:00 AM »
Chris,

History is clear on the effective use of the static tip recurve going back to 550 BC. The Persian army used a reflexed, probably composit bow with long ears. Although they were defeated by the Greeks, it was due to proper stratigics on the part of the Greek generals, not a lack of performance of the persian bows. The composit static tipped bow was mentioned by Roman generals in the Parthian wars in 53 AD Rome actually paid off the Parthians in order to avoid their arrows. Again, in 432, the Huns brought a short, static tipped recurve to the Roman empire, and were paid to cease fire. In 1208 AD Genghis Khan took about 10,000 horse archers armed with short composit recurves with static tips and all but conquered the world. His men would take two to four bows on campaign and 60-400 arrows a piece. Their bows ranged from light to heavy artillery ranging from 70-160 pounds of draw with reported effective ranges from 300-600 yards. I guess the most distinctive, well know static recurve would come from the Turkish bowyers of the pre-Ottoman empire. This weapon enjoyed a great revival during the age of the sultan. In 1798 sultan Selim shot a flight arrow a recorded 972 yards as witnessed, and confirmed by then British Ambassador Sir Ainsle. This record was not surpassed until the 20th century when American Harry Drake loosed a 1100 yard flight arrow. Simply amazing that record sttod so long using a composit bow of all natural materials.

The Static tipped recurve works more like a cam than a spring such as working recurves. The bow draws until the siyahs liberate from the string. At that point the bow begins compressing. When the string is released, the limbs recoil instead of recover as opposed to the working recurve. Recoil is a four letter word to modern bow shooters who usually relate it to hand shock. Not the case. In recoil, the string comes back into contact with the limb proir to total string fall actually acting as its own string silencer. Hand shock by definition is the outgo of unused limb energy, which returnd to the center of the bow, or the handle. What is not absorbed by the arrow is endured by the archer. energy has to go somewhere. A short, static limb is most effecient resulting in less unused energy, thus less hand shock. This is true until you reach a length verses mass in your limb design that makes it counter productive. A static tip is meant to be atop a short reflexed limb. the camming action of the siyah forces the short limb to bend closer to the center of the bow which allows for a smooth draw in 50-52" AMO bows out to 29-30 inches. As the limbs give in to the demands of the siyahs to compress, the string angle changes drastically all but eliminating finger pinch. The short recurve should store at least 12-15" of potential energy at brace or it will result in a weak finish and lower sppeds and enrgy transfer. This places the nocks at rest well ahead of the riser. Stringing becomes a matter of control and the use of a proper stringer like a deep pocket Selway type stringer. This makes it as easy to string and any other recurve. One has to take some precaution thought until the nocks break the plane of the rear of the riser.

The Static tip with the proper length of limb will produce increadable energy with a few surprises. As you begin your draw, this bow will stack hard in the lower poundages where it is not as concerning. When the siyahs begin compressing the limbs it acts as a lever. We all know from physics class that a lever allows us to lift huge mass with little effort. So with the static tip recurve. One should find it pleasnt to draw 7-9 pounds of stack in the 20-30 Pound range. When the siyahs turn inward and downward, a wonderful thing happens. There is no weight gain for an inch to a inch and a half during that draw cycle. Compound shooters refer to it as "let off". The static recurve is pure stored energy Chris. Lots of speed for less effort, short with little finger pinch, no hand shock, accurate as you or I can shoot it. Proven in the field and at war. Love mine. I think there is a place for one in everyones arsenal. Blinds, stands, on the ground.....just a good style of bow, a classic.

Downside, They are difficult to produce. They do not prove easy for mass production. Mine, in form, bends at a 90ish degree to form the siyah. Add the reflex in the limb and there aint no way to do it easy. Tnen there is the ribbing you get at 3-D shoots from guys reminding you that you brought your kids bow by mistake. That happens until you loose the first arrow. They kinda back down for a bit until they can't stand it anymore and ask if they can shoot it. Pete Ward is currently shooting one of my Sheepeaters and will be providing a review in weeks to come. Stay in touch with him. He will be able to provide you with a wealth of information on a short, reflexed static bow. Until then, get your hands on a copy of Dr. Paul Klopstegs book, "Turkish Archery and the Composit Bow". I have a copy. It was published in 1934 and only copied once in maybe 1942 or so. They are hard to find, but a great book on the subject. I hope I havent bored you to tears, but I am passionate about these little bows. Thanks for induging me.

Brent
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline LazerRay

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Re: static tips
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2007, 01:49:00 AM »
good stuff
Contempt prior to investigation leads to everlasting ignorance!
William James

Offline Mechslasher

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Re: static tips
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2007, 08:14:00 AM »
the reduction in handshock with statics can be contributed to how the limbs react after release.  with statics the limb direction is mostly upward instead of forward like with straight limb bows.  this greatly reduces the effects of vibration.  i got a chuckle when the compound world "invented" parallel technology.  i took my 48" hornless horn bow to the range and drew it back 30" to show how old parallel technology really is.
"There is beauty and magic in a drawn bow."

Cade (SC)

Offline Jeremy

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Re: static tips
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2007, 08:26:00 AM »
Man, I LOVE the lines on that top bow!!    :notworthy:
>>>-TGMM Family Of The Bow-->
CT CE/FS Chief Instructor
"Death is not the greatest loss in life.  The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live." - Norman Cousins

Offline Brent Rudolph

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Re: static tips
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2007, 08:27:00 AM »
Nice!
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline Mark Baker

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Re: static tips
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2007, 11:06:00 AM »
Nicely done Brent...I told you he knew his stuff!
My head is full of wanderlust, my quiver's full of hope.  I've got the urge to walk the prairie and chase the antelope! - Nimrod Neurosis

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