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Author Topic: New Member - Advice on first "good" longbow? (Educated questions, I promise)  (Read 511 times)

Offline Saurdaukar

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Hi guys (and gals),

Great forum you have!  Tons of posting activity which makes for (seemingly) endless reading.

A brief introduction and some clarification on the subject line, which I'm sure you've seen a thousand times.

Long story short; I got into traditional archery about a month ago after stumbling upon my grandfather's 90+ year-old bow, in a corner of my parent's basement, during a visit to their home.

Took the bow home and cleaned it up; some mineral spirits for the gunk, lite sanding to smooth it out and some oil and waxing.  Came out beautifully.

There are no markings on the bow - I can't even identify the woods used (two laminated together) - but my best guess is that it is a youth longbow with a weight somewhere between 25-30lbs at roughly 24-26 inches.  

Unstrung, it is 54 inches tip to tip.  I fashioned a bowstring for it (braided nylon cord; don't laugh - it actually worked surprisingly well) at a length of about 50 inches, which seemed to give the most "natural" feeling brace length and took it for a spin after ordering a half-dozen arrows of appropriate spine/length/etc.  As you may have guessed, there was an awful lot of reading/learning involved...

Having not even held a bow in 20+ years, I had a blast just screwing around with it.  Given the limitations in draw length, etc, etc, I found myself to be far more accurate shooting "instinctively" than by any of the methods I've read about, here (Gap, etc).  This is only at about 15 yards, though.

Having enjoyed it so much; I ordered three "cheap" bows to see what would suit best since a youth bow probably would not last all that long if overdrawn; not to mention it being almost a century old and having something of a sentimental value attached to it.

Two of the bows have been getting workouts and one has not yet arrived.

They are:

-Hickory, English-style 68" longbow, 60# @ 28".  
-Hickory/linen-backed, "Flat"-style 72" longbow, 47lbs @ 29".
-Hickory, 72" recurve, 55# @ 29".

The longbow and the flat bow are both made by amateur bowyers of little reputation and were both well under $100.

The recurve is being fashioned by a "mid-level" company you would know and I think I got a pretty good deal on it after shopping around a bit.

What I have learned, shooting the longbow and the flat bow is this... and please excuse me if I don't speak in proper terms when describing certain things... still have a lot to learn.

-My ideal draw length seems to be between about 29-30".

-My ideal draw weight (at this stage) is between 45-50#.

-While I love the look of the longbow (more on that later), I shoot the flatbow (off the knuckle, no arrow rest/shelf) much better.

-My bracer is *not* of sufficient size to protect the inside of my forearm from becoming a bruised, half-bloody mess... which means my form needs work.    ;)  

I think that the third observation is due to a combination of the longbow being more weight than I can handle ("don't over-bow when starting out" I believe I read in another thread) and what I think is referred to as "stacking."  The flat is very, very smooth whereas the longbow has very noticeable "steps" where weight suddenly increases as draw increases.

Referring back to my preference for the "look" of the old, English longbow, I have no intention of hunting with these bows - my interest stems primarily from a love of military history and, while anything short of a 120# Italian Yew bow is not considered "historically accurate," I do enjoy the concept, all the same.

I also will not be competing in any tournaments - this is for my enjoyment, only.  Basic target shooting.

As such, now that I have purchased, and put through their paces; a few "cheap" bows; I am anxious for recommendations from those more educated than me (which would be all of you) on the subject of identifying the right "keeper" longbow of traditional, English style.

Research has shown me a couple great options but, instead of listing them here and asking if you agree, I think a clean-slate approach to recommendations would be more beneficial from a learning perspective.

Ideally; I would be seeking a bow of quality wood (cannot afford Yew but, reading this forum; I understand bamboo and osage are good choices?), with a draw length of between 29-30", a draw weight of between 45-50# and the styling of an English warbow circa 13th/14th Century.

Now; the wrench in the gears... I'd like to keep the price reasonable for the first "good" longbow... say, under $300.  Anything more expensive than that would probably be wasted on someone with as little experience as I have.

Any go-to sources for such a product stick out in your collective mind?

Thanks for reading.      :)
-Mike

Offline LongStick64

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Try Maddog Archey, I believe he can make you an English longbow or at least his Mutt will probably fit your needs. Also check out Rudderbows, Three Rivers Archery.
Primitive Bowhunting.....the experience of a lifetime

Offline insanedeerhunter

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he's got the fever
insanedeerhunter

Offline Bill Turner

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Two recommendations. Get copies of G. Fred Asbell's Instinctive Shooting #1 and #2. The second gives a great description of how to shoot a longbow. That should clear up your battered arm problem. The second recommendation is to shoot as many different bows as you can before buying, and buy used if possible. The TradGang classified section would be the first place I would look. Good luck. It sounds as if you are on the right path.

Offline chopx2

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Hey Mike are War Bows even legal in DC for law abiding citizens...lol

Sounds like you are well on your way, I bet someone on here has something you'd like to try.
TGMM-Family of the Bow

The quest to improve is so focused on a few design aspects & compensating for hunter ineptness as to actually have reduced a bow & arrow’s effectiveness. Nothing better demonstrates this than mech. BHs & speed fixated designs

Offline rascal

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Yup if you are wanting to stretch your dollar you will certianly do well to check the classifieds here.
Hunt fair, hunt hard, no regrets.

Offline metsastaja

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get an arm-guard/bracer of sufficient size fast or you may begin to subconsciously develop a flinch etc that may take time to break.
Les Heilakka
TGMM Family of the Bow  
Some times the uneventful nights are just as good if not better than the eventful ones

Offline mrpenguin

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Shoot many and find one that likes you  ;)
God Bless,
Erik
_ _ _ _  _  
Crow Creek Black Feather Recurve 49@28
Browning Wasp 50@28

"And we know for those who love God all things work together for good"-Romans 8:28

"It's so hard to stop being a man and start being a wolf" - G. Fred Asbell

Offline joe ashton

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welcome to the  trad gear world.  You will find that there is a fine line between hobby and mental illness.  I fear you have already crossed it.
Joe
Joe Ashton,D.C.
 pronghorn long bow  54#
 black widow long bow 55#
 21 century long bow 55#
 big horn recurve  58#

Offline straitera

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Welcome. You nailed square one; have fun. 2nd, get the armguard asap. You can make one right now this minute from cardboard or old leather (& duct tape) to protect your arm. Exercise with the heavier bow 3-4 times weekly & shoot the 55# daily. Keep it fun. Best of luck.
Buddy Bell

Trad is 60% mental & about 40% mental.

Offline Overspined

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You also might want to consider a class and just make your own. Then it is really inexpensive when you make more on your own! Nice to see that you found this site. As stated above lots of people to help

Offline Buckwheaties

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Get or make an armguard (bracer). Shooting a longbow requires one for most shooters. It's not necessarily your form causing the bite on your arm, longbows just do that. There is a difference between an English longbow and an American(Howard Hill)style longbow. If you're looking for one used, it'll probably be the American style. If it really matters to you.?
"Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do."

Offline Don Stokes

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If the string is hitting your wrist past the arm guard, you might need to raise the fistmele (brace height).
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.- Ben Franklin

Offline gilf

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Welcome Mike

As an Englishman I have a good few hundred years of heritage to back me up  :)  

First up the wrist problem as pointed out by Don is due to a low bracing hight, it is a very common problem on English Longbows. The upright style the bow is shot doesn't help but it's almost certainly not a form issue in my opinion.

Without wanting to start any trouble, if you want and English Longbow then you need to look in England for one, I'm sure there are some great ones being made in the states but England is awash with bowyers in particular ones which will be in the low and middle price range. Getting it shipped over won't cost as much as you might think as I send bows over all the time. It's certainly worth considering.

I have shot loads of longbows, bowyers to look out for are Aidy Hayes, Neil Harrington and Heritage Longbows by Lee Ackers. These are all relatively new bowyers but their bows are all top quality and should meet your budget requirements.

If I was going to make a specific recommendation then look in to Aidy Hayes, I shot one of his bows to first place at a recent clout shoot, first time I had ever shot it and it was brilliant. That particular one was an Ipe, Bamboo and Lemonwood performance bow but he has a couple of other bows on offer which would be equally good and well within your budget.

With regard to poundage, English longbows are normally shot in a style which means you don't hold at full draw, so most people tend to shoot a higher poundage than they would with other bows. With target bows here people would tend to shoot 35-40#, with longbows it's more like 50-60#, although when you get in to the war bow scene it is genuinely in the 80-120# range*

Regards
Andy...

*I'm sure many here would doubt that people can shoot such high poundages with any regularity or consistency, but you need to remember than the style of shooting is very different and it is not about short range accuracy.

Offline Saurdaukar

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Thanks all for the replies and warm welcome.         :)      

       
Quote
Originally posted by Bill Turner:
Two recommendations...
As luck has it, I did pick up a copy of your first recommendation, in addition to two others ("Beginner's Guide to Traditional Archery" and "Be the Arrow").  I will keep an eye out for the second recommendation.

   
Quote
Originally posted by chopx2:
Hey Mike are War Bows even legal in DC for law abiding citizens...lol
Don't even get me started on this... as a displaced resident of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania; followed by its sister, Virginia, living in the District is nothing short of absurd.  

My vote doesn't count for a hill of beans (98% for John Kerry in 2004?  Seriously?) and my firearm acquisition habit has been put on indefinite hold.

In fact, I am relatively sure that I am in violation of several laws by not having registered my kitchen knives with the local police department...

In any event, the answer to your question is 'yes.'  Everything I read states that ownership of a traditional bow is legal... unfortunately I do not believe it would be legal for one to exercise his or her right to "vote" with the equipment by means of selective bodkin point placement... (Disclaimer: no black helicopters required. just a joke, G-Man)

       
Quote
Originally posted by Buckwheaties:
There is a difference between an English longbow and an American(Howard Hill)style longbow. If you're looking for one used, it'll probably be the American style. If it really matters to you.?
This may be a very stupid question, but what is the difference between an English and an American?

Looked around briefly for an answer and all of the "American longbows" I saw were very complex-looking designs with exotic, ergonomic grips and flat... whats the word... "limbs?"

Is this to what you are referring or is it simply a matter of *where* the bow is made?

The one I have was, in fact made in the US, but it is modeled after an English bow; that is to say, it is round, not flat and is, essentially, nothing more than a stick and a string (it does, however, lack horns on the tips).

I will post a couple pictures when I get home tonight... it has "taken a set" which I do not like and I am honestly unsure which way to hold it... more on that later, I suppose.

       
Quote
Originally posted by gilf:
Welcome Mike

As an Englishman I have a good few hundred years of heritage to back me up...
 
Andy, thanks very much for your info and advice here and via PM.  I am researching your recommendations and really like what I see.  I think I need a bit better understanding of advantages/disadvantages different woods have, but buying a proper longbow from an English bowyer would be neat in its own right.

       
Quote
Originally posted by joe ashton:
welcome to the  trad gear world.  You will find that there is a fine line between hobby and mental illness.  I fear you have already crossed it.
Joe
I fear you are correct, sir.  Could be worse, I suppose... at least this addiction is cheaper than drugs or women of negotiable moral virtue.         ;)      


Thanks again, all.  I appreciate your assistance.  I'll update the thread this evening with some pictures which may reveal issues to a more experienced eye.

Enjoy.
-Mike

Offline Saurdaukar

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A picture of the two "cheap" bows in question.

The bow on the top is the English-style longbow (round) and the bow on the bottom is the "American-style" (correct?) hunting-type longbow.

The one on top, when strung, is not a perfect "D."  Is this normal or a sign of poor craftsmanship (poor beyond the fact that it was a cheap-o)?

   
-Mike

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