Ashby Adcock internal footed arrow questions? Please help

[Montanawidower]

I caught the thread from a year and half ago via another thread and it ended with questions about practicality due to noise.  Has anyone solved this or hunted with these.  I am eternally searching for a more durable elk arrow.

[Looper]

I don't know, but I made one and got the tick sound.  I was thinking that adding a bit of cotton to the end of the wood insert would be enough to quiet it down, but I kind of lost interest in the project.

Have you had arrows break before on elk or is this just an exercise?  I'm using some sleeved gt 7595s and they are pretty stout.  The broadheads will break before these arrows.  I shot my test arrow into bricks and stones and tried to break it. The heads bent, but everything else has held up admirably. What heads are you using?

[Montanawidower]

I've shot laminated birch, hickory, grizzly sticks, aluminum back in the day.  I have had a variety of results.  None are as durable as I'd like.  Today I am shooting 5575s with sleeves.  They generally work great, but I have had several break just behind the sleeve... makes me think.  I have shot alot of different broadheads with mixed results as well.  I tried Ashby heads this year and was very impressed.  Broke a rib on entrance and lodged in opposing scapula with no damage to the head.  Not a bit.... very suprising.  I have had a grizzly edge curl (in retrospect probably a heat problem when changing the the angle), an eclipse bend 80 degrees, an abowyer tip bend, had a friends woodsman go in only 6 inches.  Rightfully, I take elk durability seriously. Has anyone heard from OL or Ed on the subject?

[stalkin4elk]

I made some that were quiet and flew well, but they are for my son.He never broke any.The process is easy enough and repeatable if you get the tune for your arrow. I bought a new bow and ran out of time to mess with it for this season. Sooo, an upcoming winter project. FYI, the thread was running after I destroyed several FMJ's on angled impacts, thus my interest in the idea. Hardware store dowels fit inside the 5/16 shafts well. Any HIT shafts would require too small diameter dowel to get the strength you desire I think. Give it a try because experimenting is part of the fun. I would also like an update from anyone who has seriously tested the concept.

[Montanawidower]

Anyone out there using this system?  Why oak and not other woods....  So many questions!

[Doc Nock]

Having read that thread somewhat closely, one key I recall that made me doubt my ability to follow was that the dowel was to have a parabolic taper, not a straight taper... something like those curved broad heads I read about...

Making each one exactly the same dimension and then a parabolic taper!?

I must have gotten away from the thread before it posted results for tickin noises.

Did I recall that they were doing angle impact testing and it still didn't break? Out of Ed's heavy bows yet?

That is pretty awesome, but the logic Ed posted as to why it worked was pretty simple and hard to argue...gentle curved taper to the internal foot and it allows the shaft to bend slowly, but not kink so as to "snap."

I wonder if that "epoxy damn" Ed wrote about isn't a key in all this too?

[Montanawidower]

They were shooting armoured vehicles!!  Crazy.  That was Feb 09 and I thought as crafty as this lot is, someone would be shooting it at something living.   The noise question remained unanswered and I was most concerned with that.  I've had plenty of animals jump at "quiet" shots, I don't want to increase the noise.

[Allan Hundeby]

I really want to try some of these internally-footed shafts, but want to avoid adding the "ticking" sound or noisiness some people found ...like found in: "The Perfect Arrow" thread:

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=070146;p=8

Are there any more recent posts regarding this issue?

[Looper]

I did make one after the one I mentioned in that post above and it was quiet.  The first one, I think ticked because I only had glue on the front end. I used a 7595 and a hickory dowel. In hindsight, I probably had the dowel too small, and on release the flexing of the shaft caused it to hit the dowel.

I did make a couple using the Arrow Dynamics Hammerhead.  They worked great. I made sure the dowel was tapered evenly, and I used an epoxy made for shafting golf clubs.  I also made sure to cover the dowel all the way to the start of the taper. The epoxy I used does have a little flex in it when it hardens.

The Hammerheads have a thicker front end than the 7595s, so that may also have contributed to removing the tick. The only thing with the Hammerheads, is that they have a really large outside diameter. You have to make sure the opening on the broadhead has a large enough opening at the flange.  I ended up using Stos heads and they were about the same size as the Hammerhead. The flanges on Zwickeys and Simmons heads were too small.

I ended up losing the 2 shafts I made, and have been mostly shooting Surewood shafts since then, so I haven't made up any others.  

I do like the idea and the ones I made were really tough. I might make up some more and do a torture test with them. I've got some extra 7595 blems laying around somewhere that would be good test subjects.

[Allan Hundeby]

Thanks for the reply!

I made a few "test-shafts", but combined the idea of the hardwood dowel insert ...with 3" of 2117 aluminum outsert.  My plan was to split the additional flexing between the insert and the outsert, AND to avoid the possibility of getting the curve wrong, hence making noisy shafts.

Here is what I'm shooting:
30" (BOP) of CX Maxima 350 shaft (8.2 GPI)
+ 3" of 2117 outsert
+ ~90gr. brass inserts (I had to file off some diameter to get the 2117 to slide over top)
+ 4" of maple doweling (3" glued next to the brass insert, then only 1" of unglued parabolic taper at the back end),
+ 75 gr. steel broadhead adapters,
+ ~145gr. modified Grizzly's (were 160gr.)

+ 5" of fletching wrap
+ 3 x 4" parabolic feathers

Total weight: ~645 grains (including broadhead)
23" balance point from nock (including broadhead) = 26.7 EFOC

They seem rock solid, and they are completely quiet.  However, I had to cut them down to 29.5", and they still show slightly weak!  (I'm guessing my poor release is robbing me of a LOT of energy, or causing the bareshaft to impact to the right of the fletched shafts.)

----

Thinking more about it ... I believe the "ideal" external footing would be an aluminum shaft where the OUTside tube has an extremely exaggerated chamfer - in effect, creating a tapered aluminum outsert.  (Is this how the Grizzly Stiks are shaped?)

Better yet would be to couple that with an internal footing - possibly made from hollow aluminum tubing - where the INside of the tubing is tapered down to almost nothing towards the back.

I sure wish somebody would start making steel inserts (threaded) - to replace the brass inserts for additional strength.

I'll try to post a pic of the shafts I made.

-Allan