Gaining Arrow weight

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
[QB... You can't take a well tuned arrow, add 100 grains up front, and expect it to still be properly tuned. ... [/QB]

no jason, that is not an absolute fact.  i can disprove that personally and easily.  there's nothing about archer/bow/arrow tuning that's written in stone and must be adhered to or the world will end.

just as not everyone can shoot longbows as easily as recurves, or vice-versa, so it is that not everyone can make a 450 and a 600 grain arrow fly well outta the same bow.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Sorry Rob, but physics is physics. And anyone can make a 450-grain and 600-grain arrow fly well out of the same bow, but not by taking a well tuned 450-grain arrow and simply adding 150 more grains up front (which is what this discussion is about)...unless we have very different definitions of the word "well."

[RC]

I can take my gold tips 35/55 I think they are and shoot them with a 160 grain head or 225 and they shoot perfectly. No fishtailing at all.Bareshaft at 15 yards the 225 grain heads do shoot about 4-6 inches right.I`m right handed.

[toehead]

I have a few dozen carbonwood vapor 4000 shafts, half with weight tubes half with 50 grain inserts and half with 100 grain inserts....all shoot great.  oh, looks like 3 halves don't make a whole but you get my meaning...
HOWEVER...i do change broadhead weight with the different inserts etc.  all equal about 200...
with the heavy wieght tubes I shoot a 200 grain BH,
with the 50 grain insert and lighter weight tubes I shoot a 145gr BH.  with the 100 grain insert and no weight tubes I shoot a 145 gr BH.  All arrows weigh w/i 25 grains of each other.
I see no marked difference in arrow flight between the 3 differently weighed shafts, I have not bareshafted this combination however.

I had some AD Hammer heads that I left almost full lenght with a 200 grain head, bareshafted and they were dead on spine (very slightly week w/o feathers and wrap).  I bent a couple inserts (epoxied in) on hogs and decided to cut them down and bareshaft them with the 100gr inserts and 200 gr broadheads.  This DID significanlty weeken the shaft and I had to cut them down to bare minimum (29 1/4) for my 29" draw length.

[Dave Thaxton]

Aquarium pump hose from wallyword works great and is cheap!

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by RC:
I can take my gold tips 35/55 I think they are and shoot them with a 160 grain head or 225 and they shoot perfectly. No fishtailing at all.Bareshaft at 15 yards the 225 grain heads do shoot about 4-6 inches right.I`m right handed.

That's an excellent example. You and the original poster are both shooting Gold Tips. By adding just 65 grains to the tip it weakened your dynamic spine enough to move your point of impact for bare shafts 4-6 inches right at 15 yards. Can you imagine what 150 grains would do?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
Sorry Rob, but physics is physics. And anyone can make a 450-grain and 600-grain arrow fly well out of the same bow, but not by taking a well tuned 450-grain arrow and simply adding 150 more grains up front (which is what this discussion is about)...unless we have very different definitions of the word "well."

carbon shafting has a different, very wide range dynamic spine than static spine.  this allows a wide range of mass weight and foc placement.  the end result, for me, are like carbon arrows, but of different mass weights and foc's, that track straight and true to a mark out to 35 yards - that's my definition of "well" and all that matters to me.

[Mint]

I'm shooting 55/75 goldtips to out of my 55lb palmer, they are cut to 28" with 50gr brass inserts and 200gr muzzy phantoms up front. They weigh in at 540 grs i believe. I would use stu millers dynamic spine calculator to see if your arrows would fly well withthe extra weight up front. The calculator has been great for me.

[BWD]

Might want to consider GT brass screw in weights.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Rob,

I've been shooting carbons since '93. They're nice, but they don't defy the laws of physics or the rules of tuning. I know how simply adding 150 grains to the front of a well tuned arrow will make it fly, and it's no where near my definition of "well." But to each his own, I suppose.

[Rob DiStefano]

jason, to each their own - my findings ring true to me and obviously not you, and for that i could care less.  i'm not defying the laws of physics, i'm working with them.  i think the difference is in what constitutes a "well flying arrow".  to me, that's a complete arrow, including fletching.  all that matters to me is that the arrow's flight, after it clears the riser, is straight and true.  i can easily do that with a mixed bag of front end weights on the same carbon shaft - they all "fly well" for me, probably not you.  this different foc on the same shaft/arrow stuff is not new to me, been doing this since the early 60's with 24srt-x alums, 'cept that shaft material is junk compared to the cheapest of carbons, nor does it have a wide dynamic spine range.  hey, whatever - you enjoy your holidays and good luck hunting.

[Dirtybird]

Stuff them with foam.  Adds weight and is deadly silent.

[RC]

My thoughts were to add the point weight and if the arrow is long enough to trim it back some to stiffen it back up to hitting where you were to begin with. Crazy I guess but would work for me.RC

[RC]

I also have added a toothpick behind the side plate on my longbow to do the same thing.RC

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by RC:
My thoughts were to add the point weight and if the arrow is long enough to trim it back some to stiffen it back up to hitting where you were to begin with. Crazy I guess but would work for me.RC

Not crazy; dead on. Adding tip weight decreases dynamic spine, which is offset by shortening the shaft to increase dynamic spine. One step takes it out of tune. The other brings it back.

[Balding Kansan]

Thanks for all the pointers guys. And the debating was entertaining as well, even though you're not really speaking my language (over my head). Anyways, i'm going to shoot for around 550 grains with the several different ideas and see which one works best.