Cresting and dipping, which exact combination of paints that are compatible?

[stikbowshooter2]

Alright I have searched on here and Archery Talk.  Read post after post until I've become crosseyed trying to get my exact questions answered.  Trying my hand at cresting for the second time and results aren't very good yet.  I am using Gold Tip Traditional Carbon Arrows.  

I want to clarify that I want to dip, not to spray.  Seems like some like spraying but I am specifically asking about dipping, not spraying or using wraps so please don't chime in with those two.  

Bought some gloss white Rustoleum gloss white oil based paint and dipped last night, unthinned.  Used Testors acrylic about 16 hours later for the crsting and the paint just kind of crackled and not smooth.  I have Polycrylic for the cear coat final dip, if I can make it to that stage.  

The paint for the dip still isn't dry I just found out by scraping the messed up arrow with my nail, seems gummy still.  Could this be the problem or is the acrylic on top of the oil based just not compatible? Will I be better off with a different base dip, like a water based?  Will it dry faster?  I have 7 more arrows that are dipped in the oil based Rustoelum, but need to know if I should strip and start over with a different base or what???  Would I be ok if I dipped the oil based white in the poly,let dry, then crested???  If so would the paint stick ok to the top coat?  Just need to know EXACTLY which combination of the three paints will be compatible from dipping, to cresting, then finaly the clear coat.  Seems like a lot of people reccomend the Testors Acrylic and Minwax Polycrylic so that is what I bought yesterday.  Not finding which base to use with these two though....  

I had the Testors enamel I used one other time will decent (had the same oil based dipping coat) results except when I pinstriped silver and made everything else run beneath it.  I appreciate the help.

Also is an acrylic paint an acrylic paint?  The Testors is around $2.50 per .50oz and I saw some 2 oz bottles of ceramcoat (I think) at Michaels for around $1.29 for a 2oz Bottle!  They had a ton of colors vs. the six or so of the acrylic testors at Michaels.  Is it the same stuff?  Will it work just as well if not better?  The Testors sure seems awefully thin.
  Thanks all!

[Dustin Waters]

use the same paint that you dip with for the cresting... You can get the small test cans for about 2-3 a piece in a myriad of colors.  I spray crown dip my arrows with a krylon or rustoleum spray white, then crest them with the same oil based paint you are dipping with.  Give them a full 24 to dry after you crest them with teh oil based paint.  Then to seal it all up nice and pretty you can just dip them in a standard poly that you would use to seal up a wooden shaft.  That has always worked well for me.  Hope it helps.

[Tree Rat]

I think your oil base is the issue. Water base or a lacquer.

[NoCams]

Change your dip paint to Krylon latex acrylic enamel available at Wally World, cheap. Thin the snot out of it with water. You want about a cup of paint to 4 oz water. Stir well then pour into your dip tube. Mine is 1.5" PVC about 14" long. Tape off a 10" cap dip with 3M blue painters tape. dip a coat, wait a day dip again, done. You want the paint so thin that it runs like water back off the shaft and back into the can.

After second coat has dried for 24 hrs you can crest with your testors acrylic or any other acylic since they all are water based like your cap dip you just put on. After crest has dried for 24 hrs you should be able to put on the Polyccrylic top clear coat since it is water based too. I also thin my Polycrylic big time too so that it runs off the shaft like water. I do not use Polycylic on my woodies but you are only needing it to cover your crest and cap to keep them from getting smudged and worn so it will be fine. Good luck bud !

[lpcjon2]

If your adding different paint bases to one another use some Binz primer or it wont stick.And dry time is a must minimum of 12 hrs between any application is my rule.

[Pinelander]

They have to be the same... enamel on enamel, or acrylic on acrylic, or lacquer on lacquer. For the most part, no mis-matches allowed. :-)

[stikbowshooter2]

Thank you for the repeonses, especially NoCams.  You anwered my questions that I needed by telling me exact products to use.... Perfect!!!
I wasn't sure if enamel, acrylic, lacquer etc... was water or oil based, guess that should have been more of my questions.

I'll go ahead and crest the oil based by using the enamel I already have.  Gave it a test and goes on smooth like glass.  In the future I'll change my base to acrylic and move on.

One last question here.  I have my base crown dipped in oil based rustoleum and will crest with the Testors enamel.  Can I use the Minwax Poloycrylic for a clear coat dip on the enamel over oil based?  I have heard of people cresting then when clear dipped for the final finish the colors ran.  Will I be ok?

Thanks again for the insight!!!

[cedar]

I use rustoleum and testors enamel and cover with Sherwin-Williams water polyurethiane

[NoCams]

Depends...... I had very mixed results with testors enamels. That is why I switched to the acrylic testors. But since you are already oil based with the cap dip you can try the testors enamel, just let it dry for a few days to make sure before dipping in the Polycrylic. Colors like gold and silver or any metallic is the worst for running. Dip one shaft and let it drip dry then check to see if your crest is running before dipping the rest.

Once you get this dozen done you can head on down to Hobby Lobby or testors.com and make the switch to acrylics. Water base is so much easier and no thinner to buy. No fumes or nasty chemicals to fool with.

[Stumpkiller]

I am playing around with alcohol based stain, a water based leather dye crown (both as a wipe on in lieu of dip) and then a clear polyurethane protective coat (or three coats).  So far so good.  I used Sharpie permanent marker as a crest and to help mask the "seam" between the shaft stain and the crown dye.  Once the shafts are dried I will use a silver ink permanent pen to highlight the crest over the polyurethane (as that was not colorfast in my wipe-on test under the polyu.)

Here's a peek prior to the polyu.  Two coats later it has darkened up but is still looking good.  (Yes, a couple have "overwipe" but I will blend that in with the highlighting silver and probably mask with tape next time).

   

The reason for this is my wife has asthsma and we now live in a ranch w/everything attached (and the garage is unheated).  Out of mercy I am getting away from the lacquer or potent odors.

[WESTBROOK]

Stickbowshooter, the easiest way to tell what "base" something is, is to look at the cleanup part of the label. Water base (acrylic,enamel..) will cleanup or thin with water. Oil base will cleanup or thin with mineral spirits/paint thinner.

Eric

[pruski]

good info

[Shawn Leonard]

Buy a can of enamal and thin it 60% (pain)t 40% (thinner), rough up the shaft with a bit of sandpaper or steelwool and dip. Let dry and dip again, let dry than dip it in oil based poly thinned the same way. I have done tons of shafts this way and worked fine. Fletch with duco. Plug shaft with a golf tee or something to prevent the inside being coated. Or use a wrap if all else fails, I went to wraps after 5 years of doing it the hard way! Shawn

[Knapper]

One thing for certain if you did not thin your dip paint it was probably way too thick.  Try a test shaft to check thinness of your dip paint.  It should be thinned to a point were when you dip it the paint the paint will run freely off and will get down to fast dripping and then the dipping will gradually slow to a stop.  It should start dripping after about 30 seconds ( I have never timed it to be exact). If not thinned enough just wipe off the shaft, thin more and try again.  If the paint gets too thin you will be able to tell as your pigment will run out and the paint will become transparent instead of opaque.  Then you will have to add some un-thinned paint.  
The same with your cresting paint it has to be thinned to the correct consistency so that it will flow well as you are applying it.  One tip on cresting get the best brushes you can afford to buy.  Hobby lobby or art stores are a good source.  Most of the brushes sold for cresting brushes are not worth spending your money on. A great crester with a crummy brush can not do as well as an average crester with a good brush.
You can not put lacquer over most other paints but you can put most other paints over lacquer. The reason for this is the solvent in lacquer will attack the finish below.
Last thought,  yes there are faster drying paints than the oil that you are using.  I would suggest using water base that is sold by one of the large archery suppliers.
Hope this helps, the thinning is something you will have to experiment with but when you find the right consistency the light bulb will come on and you will be able to duplicate it again and again.

[MO Bow]

stikbowshooter2,

I use Testor's enamel and I tried the Minwax polycrylic to try a clear coat to protect it...the enamel ran like a stuck pig.

Here's what I use:
Minwax water or oil based stain
then
A few coats of gasket lacquer
then
Crest on top of the lacquer with Testor's enamel

I don't put anything on top of the enamel.  That stuff is tough as nails.  I've shot my arrows hundreds of times and no wear/rubbing/fading on the cresting.

If you use Testor's, you'll have to thin it a bit.  I've used about 10 different colors and added 10 different amounts of thinner to get it to coat right.  I've never had a need to thin out the metallic colors.  They're right on.

Do a search for my handle and I've got a couple build-alongs on here and you can check out the cresting.

Good luck.  It was all about trial and error for me, so I understand all the questions!

Take it easy.

Adam